1 Topic by Magic Merlin

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Topic: Official Aimbot Discussion

Well, as the instagib players of u know the number of aimbots increased drastically.
Some are easy to kick if the players are fair - some are impossible to kick because their team likes them and sopme times ppl just kick players randomly and say they have an aimbot.

In this thread u should just post some ideas for a tool detecting aimbots... maybe we can find something usefull.
And maybe some 1 can build a tool for servers.

Now just post some ideas here even if they seem very useless.

Or if this isnt even possible to make this just close this thread.

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2 Reply by Schokomuesli (edited by Schokomuesli 2009-05-21 22:21:24)

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

Magic Merlin wrote:

Well, as the instagib players of u know the number of aimbots increased drastically.
Some are easy to kick if the players are fair - some are impossible to kick because their team likes them and sopme times ppl just kick players randomly and say they have an aimbot.

In this thread u should just post some ideas for a tool detecting aimbots... maybe we can find something usefull.
And maybe some 1 can build a tool for servers.

Now just post some ideas here even if they seem very useless.

Or if this isnt even possible to make this just close this thread.

Well, as long as TeeWorlds is open source, there will always be aimbots, hacks, etc.

Most of the aimbots are injecting code or manipulate data/the memory while teeworlds is starting,...
To prevent this it is necessary to write an anti-cheat-app which recognizes manipulated memory/files/etc in Teeworlds and in itself.

The app would watch the memory, files, the process list, etc. during the whole run-time,...

3 Reply by Lartza

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

I agree. Check for 3rd party code on memory, since the bots are either modified clients or injected clients.

4 Reply by Somerunce

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

How do you make sure that THAT app is ran? Since it's an open source project, we would need some kind of close sourced part in the end, to stop this using this method.

5 Reply by Fisico

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

when its no open source it would give also bots look at other games

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6 Reply by Sushi Tee

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

the only thing u can do is to play on pro servers which was allready mentioned in another thread or just dont play instagib wink
The best solution would be to remove the laser in next release lol but i guess since lua its no problem to make a new weapon.... nvm it was a joke anyways wink

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7 Reply by khubajsn

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

Remove laser?
Not good idea.

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8 Reply by Rajh

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

You can make a special client with a hidded option (secret source) wich will be check on server join but it will only remove people modifing source.
Or you could check if someones reflex are unhumans or some other strange behavior but it won't detect all cheaters neither

9 Reply by lemon

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

Ever i see an aimbot his aim moves very fast
so maybe when the aim moves unhuman you get a ban or kick

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10 Reply by Sushi Tee

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

there are some players where the aim moves very strange but its normal for them and no bot!!

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11 Reply by khubajsn

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

Agree with sushi now.
@Rajh: Sorry, but TeeWorlds is opensource. Do not make secret code, do not make secret >buttons<, functions etc.

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12 Reply by Jamp (edited by Jamp 2009-05-22 18:13:10)

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

Program the anti-aimbot in some obscure LISP dialekt with support for metaprogramming, and nobody (including you tongue) will be able to read and understand it (maybe some prolog wrapper added would be even better)

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13 Reply by Schokomuesli (edited by Schokomuesli 2009-05-22 19:00:16)

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

I could write a tool which consists of two parts:

A client app, which monitors the memory, running processes and itself.
You have to start TeeWorlds using this client.

The other app on the serverside hooks into the teewords_server, and accepts clients with enabled anti cheat system only (it tries to communicate directly with the anti cheat system on the client side).

The serverside-app lets the client calculate hashes (to check if the client is unmodified), etc.
The application could be also used to kick users with a kickreason/errormessage which could be displayed by the anti-cheat client app.

I could introduce an account-system, so you have to log-in with a username/password in the anti-cheat tool.
After logging in, you could be able to play on protected teeworlds servers,...

This would enable to ban people from protected servers (with the anti-cheat-app) forever.
1 Computer = 1 Account (because a unique hash will be calculated to identify your computer and to prevent double registration and re-registration of alreasy banned users)

It will be a lot of work (I want to finish my current project first, called "TeeWorlds: Command & Control"), but I will start today with things like: feasibility analysis, functional specification, product requirement document,.. etc. etc.

I have already invented a name for my tool (which currently exists in thought and on some recycled paper):
TeeWorlds: AntiCheat (TWAC)

What do you think about that?

14 Reply by azmeuk (edited by azmeuk 2009-05-22 19:32:01)

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

You can't make an anti aimbot tool, because it is not possible to _really_ know who is an aimbot, and who is not.
I mean, ok actually bots make very symetric moves and always shoot you at the second they see you, and so it's obvious. But what can, really proves you that it is not a very very good player ?
If I make a bot which moves like an human, and sometimes miss its shot, I mean a bot acting like me and you. How can you see that it's a bot, or that it's an human ?

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15 Reply by Jamp

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

Would it be opensource?
And I don't think you can persuade server providers such thing.
(Personally, I would not use such a tool, and I'm not a cheater, but because this tool is making playing much more cumerstome (horrible word) for people using it, and cheaters won't use at all)

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16 Reply by Magix

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

As players are required to connect to the master servers, I believe the solution is to run a script on the master servers to see if players are running a modded client. If they are, a tag like {MODDED} should be placed in front of their name, so that at least bots can be differentiated from human players with skill.

Maybe the server script can read what the modded client does, and ban bots. a hacker changing the source to remove this would be a bad idea because it would no longer show any servers.


Again, this is speaking entirely hypothetical, and I am not sure if this is even possible.

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17 Reply by clarus

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

Hello,

Aim bots are the main problems on our iCTF/DMsave maps. We already tried many detectors, mainly based upon behavior of players, like mouse movement. But we failed to get something right.
So here some idea we have :
- TeeWorlds must remains open-source, people must have the choice to modify their clients to customize it (like with Z-client) so anti-aim bot code must be on server side
- but it is a bad idea to publish this code so servers admin should make their own patch
- as we experimented it, it is very hard to make a generic anti-bot based only on kills ratio / mouse speed / mouse accuracy, because auti-aim bot have to be extremely reliable (you cant ban honest layers) but should detect botters in less than 2 minutes
- so a better way would be to get popular bots and make specific anti-bot code for each one
- it takes time to test and debug anti-cheat code sad

Clarus.

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18 Reply by buffer[] (edited by buffer[] 2009-05-25 15:26:53)

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

Azmeuk is right.
It's impossible to detect a bot.
In a first side,
the proof is some bot miss shot, wait for kill, or move aim slowly so the bot won't kill you when he see you.
It's actually very easy to code an aimbot, and to make him seems human.

In another side,
there is some very go(o)d players which aim very well or move theire aim very strangly.

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19 Reply by Coold0wn

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

I'd say just ignore them.
they wont have fun all the time

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20 Reply by Azon

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

It seems too many people think a bot would be detected by his behaviour, that is, strange movements or exact aim. This is indeed something which would be impossible, and probably ban plenty of genuine good players in the process.

However, this is not what is meant with an anti-aimbot. As you can read the goal of this project is to find some way in which the server checks the client and detects when something is different from the official client.

Hope this clears things up and takes peoples mind away from applications that check for suspicious "aim" or "movements".

21 Reply by Lanta

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

Azon wrote:

the server checks the client and detects when something is different from the official client.

so, we won't use client mod like teecomp, teestrike & z-team teeworlds in the future? O_O

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22 Reply by Fisico

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

you can make a ainti aimbot tool in all server clients so bots are useless and make it so that you cant conteckt to a server witch a bot or some shing like that
make a tool what is only for teecom usw and other mod clients cant conect to a server

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23 Reply by Azon (edited by Azon 2009-05-25 22:19:23)

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

mrlantastic wrote:
Azon wrote:

the server checks the client and detects when something is different from the official client.

so, we won't use client mod like teecomp, teestrike & z-team teeworlds in the future? O_O

This post seems to concern detection only, what will happen when it detects an unofficial client is something else. But as this is still a very basic idea it is still very uncertain what, if any, solution Teeworlds will use, so let's focus on the possibilities.

24 Reply by Lanta (edited by Lanta 2009-05-25 20:10:05)

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

Azon wrote:
mrlantastic wrote:
Azon wrote:

the server checks the client and detects when something is different from the official client.

so, we won't use client mod like teecomp, teestrike & z-team teeworlds in the future? O_O

This post seems to concern detection only, what will happen when it detects an unofficial client is something else. Best solution would be to make it selectable for server hosters if they accept non-compliant clients to connect.

But as this is still a very basic idea it is still very uncertain what, if any, solution Teeworlds will use, so let's focus on the possibilities.

very bad idea... i prefer a server utility that launch teeworlds_srv and after accept incoming connections from a little client tool, checking if the client it's ok...

http://n3g.tee-city.net/ImageHost/image.php?id=D76A_4A1AEB02&amp;jpg

They client tool if an app that run the client and it check the in-game playing. If mouse movement or/and key pressing does not match with tee movement it close the connection with the server tool (so, with the server) immediatly. If there is no server-tool in the server ip address, it connect directly to the server, without cheat protection.
The server tool is like a "proxy" or a firewall. It accept connection from a client and redirect him to the server. If the client tool detect a cheat, the connection fall down.
With this system, a server with this anti-cheat system will not support client without anti cheat system.

It is only an idea, but if anyone agree with me, i can try to do this in c#. And if anyone want to help me developing, my MSN contact: crgiuseppe[at]live[dot]it
mccae, my idea is derivated form yours... we can collaborate? big_smile

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25 Reply by Rajh

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Re: Official Aimbot Discussion

Azon wrote:

However, this is not what is meant with an anti-aimbot. As you can read the goal of this project is to find some way in which the server checks the client and detects when something is different from the official client.

People will make their client says that they are ok "yes yes im an official client don't worry"