26

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

Twiss wrote:

But ok i have a new idea. You could just take the reaction time it is in many cases unhuman it cant be luck. In combination with an optional account system really good players can be proofed and autmatically not recognized as a bot, so it is like a whitelist with good players who otherwise would be detected as a bot. Furthermore, the server can just start a vote kick so finally the players habe to decide, if a person is really a bot.

EDIT: I start a short research in the internet and it seems as 112 ms are the lowest possible reaction time for humans. It cant be just luck if you nearly always react faster. Ok yes you could make the bot so that it needs this time but in combination with the whitelist you can set it higher and then bots are less effective.

This may make sense in some ways. We may not be able to stop people from writing bots, but at least we can make it as hard as we can. It's like putting a lock on the door of your house, it doesn't make it impossible to enter the house without your consent, but it seems like it stops a lot of people. But it's not as easy as buying a simple lock and installing it on your door. Any bot detection will need to be implemented and that means spending time that could be used to make the game better.
Also we should remember that these bot detection mechanisms will make the server use more resources like RAM, CPU, etc.

But... what if we tried more power?

27

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

I really think we should just give up.
This seems like a never ending battle.
I think that the [BOT] clantag auto-ban function should be added to normal servers.
Not many people use bots anyway. Its just that lots and lots of people have botlike movement but don't have a bot.
They just practice a lot. (and yes there are plenty of funvoters around that kick skilled players)
Like my dad got mad at me because he thought that my actions were "unhuman" and botlike.
(but he never got to ban me because I was server admin big_smile)

Every person I met that used a bot wasn't very tough. They mostly walked off cliffs. lol

no

28

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

@Lord Kirby
There are no bots on normal servers...!
But, +1

Playing Teeworlds since 2011!
"I will always be topless for you"
                  - Günther Branlutte

29 (edited by Twiss 2012-08-05 11:35:27)

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

Are you sure? When i started playing teeworlds (version 0.5) even there were some bots, because there were many bot clients i think. A long time there weren't many bots in 0.6, but now, since the 13x37 client, is out, there seems to be more botters. And many player tries to use a bot in FNG, but may be you're right and it is better in vanilla servers, i suppose its because you can't play just with the laser big_smile. I don't play it so much and i don't have a vanilla server, where i have to ban the bots all the time... It would be nice anyway to have a vanilla implementation to stop it on all servers. The [BOT] Clantag was a good idea big_smile +1 from me too.

(BTW Why no one implements a like system for posts big_smile?)

30

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

Twiss wrote:

Are you sure? When i started playing teeworlds (version 0.5) even there were some bots, because there were many bot clients i think. A long time there weren't many bots in 0.6, but now, since the 13x37 client, is out, there seems to be more botters. And many player tries to use a bot in FNG, but may be you're right and it is better in vanilla servers, i suppose its because you can't play just with the laser big_smile. I don't play it so much and i don't have a vanilla server, where i have to ban the bots all the time... It would be nice anyway to have a vanilla implementation to stop it on all servers. The [BOT] Clantag was a good idea big_smile +1 from me too.

(BTW Why no one implements a like system for posts big_smile?)

A long time ago moderators snipped the name of cheat clients. Now every reader goes to Google and search for *snip*. And now it's popularity grew...

Once in a century...

31 (edited by BotoX 2012-08-06 01:31:04)

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

No 0.6 bot has the [BOT] clantag implemented. Useless idea.
There actually are vanilla bots but not public. So yes Bots are also on "normal" (vanilla) servers.
There is no such thing as a bot movement since there aren't any bots which are moving.
In Instagib and zCatch there are a lot of bots. The only way to stop this is to DDoS and hack the sites which are providing this software.
The community itself can take down these sites with DDoS attacks.
We are Teeworlds.
We do not forgive botting.
We do not forget bots.
Expect us.

32

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

Noone can deny that there are "many" bots even in vanilla (low level).
But hey, bad programmed bots that cant hit properly are less annoying than ITC.lol teamhook ****** (evil (not the clan) kids), or the fact, that high level players get more often kicked for being bots than real ones.
And it has been many, many, many months ago since i saw a [BOT]-bot again.

33 (edited by Kirbs 2012-08-05 18:41:48)

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

HeroiAmarelo wrote:

@Lord Kirby
There are no bots on normal servers...!
But, +1

I had to tell my dad that.

There aren't much bots on modded servers either. (exept hookbots)

no

34

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

Lord Kirby wrote:
HeroiAmarelo wrote:

@Lord Kirby
There are no bots on normal servers...!
But, +1

I had to tell my dad that.

There aren't much bots on modded servers either. (exept hookbots)

Sir, I have to inform you that Instagib is a mod!

35 (edited by lamefun 2012-08-06 14:05:35)

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

Any detection is fallible. There are only two viable options:

1. Make Teeworlds proprietary, add cheat protection. Come on, proprietary software is cool, it powers the world! Soon there'll only be hardware with DRM support, so we could use DRM for cheat protection!

2. Make admin providers. An admin provider would be a server that provides an admin account system. Teeworlds servers would be able to allow admins from certain admin providers to ban players from their servers (we should provide means however for server owner to bypass bans if they themselves get banned from their own servers). There should be an official admin server, where admin are selected by the best Teeworlds pros that is enabled by default in the official Teeworlds server binary. People should be also able to create their own admin providers. Teeworlds server should support multiple admin providers to be added at the same time, so server owners can add all providers they trust to their servers.

36

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

3. Let admins/modos do their jobs.

Not Luck, Just Magic.

37

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

lamefun wrote:

1. Make Teeworlds proprietary, add cheat protection. Come on, proprietary software is cool, it powers the world! Soon there'll only be hardware with DRM support, so we could use DRM for cheat protection!

Hahaha.... We all know that there are no cheats for proprietary software. You are being funny. big_smile

38 (edited by Twiss 2012-08-06 18:29:27)

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

BotoX wrote:

No 0.6 bot has the [BOT] clantag implemented. Useless idea.
There actually are vanilla bots but not public. So yes Bots are also on "normal" (vanilla) servers.
There is no such thing as a bot movement since there aren't any bots which are moving.
In Instagib and zCatch there are a lot of bots. The only way to stop this is to DDoS and hack the sites which are providing this software.
The community itself can take down these sites with DDoS attacks.
We are Teeworlds.
We do not forgive botting.
We do not forget bots.
Expect us.

I think you dont get me, not the bot is moving bad, the players who are botting move bas and can may be recognized. And as mASOUD i think making it harder to write a good bot may help too. I suggest that the most bots are written just for fun. If it is an annoying, long but easy work to create one the most programmers wouldnt do it.

Nice idea to attack them, its to bad that that is illegal big_smile.

@Lord Kirby i dont now why you are so cinvinced that there are not so many bots. I have to openfng server and there are many bots.

Instead of more admins there should be a global banserver. Some superadmins can ban botter from all servers so that they cant play anymore or they need to change their ip (But may be tw is able to read out the product key for windows or mac and you can really ban one client?). I think a global bansystem will frighten off many botters, particullary if you cant change your ip to get in.

39 (edited by Kirbs 2012-08-06 19:20:03)

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

BotoX wrote:
Lord Kirby wrote:
HeroiAmarelo wrote:

@Lord Kirby
There are no bots on normal servers...!
But, +1

I had to tell my dad that.

There aren't much bots on modded servers either. (exept hookbots)

Sir, I have to inform you that Instagib is a mod!

Ok, Well I play lots of Zcatch, but not much instagib. (Better start now) smile

@Twiss:   There are bots around, but my point is that we should just plain ignore the botters. They are just as tough as any human. (either that or ive never seen a bot) And go to a server that doesn't attract bots. (Evidently you think skilled players are bots? Maybe?)

no

40

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

Twiss wrote:

Instead of more admins there should be a global banserver. Some superadmins can ban botter from all servers so that they cant play anymore.

I think that's a good idea, so now I can suggest these two ways to attack botters :

1. Make it as hard as possible to write bots that actually work, in any way which is more effective by less time and resources spend on it.

2. Make it expensive to use the bots, so people are less likely to use them. A global ban server is a good idea to achieve this.

Twiss wrote:

May be tw is able to read out the product key for windows or mac and you can really ban one client?.

No, I don't think that is a good idea, Like it is already discussed in earlier posts, a modified client can report anything the modifier wants it to.

But... what if we tried more power?

41

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

If we had a global banserver then you would have lots of reports saying: *^&*^%&^ you global banserver.

Because... They weren't using a bot.
So thats just not fair Twiss.
A superadmin can't prove someone's botting.
Its just plain (*&(((&^%^ to ban someone who's not botting from all servers.
SIMPLE: If someone uses a bot, then global banserver is still bad. (what if they stopped botting?)
If they weren't botting and they get banned, then its still bad. (they aren't botting duh.)
Lots of people look like bots but aren't.
Nobody can tell the diffrence between human and bot.

no

42

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

Lord Kirby wrote:

Nobody can tell the diffrence between human and bot.

Most of them are pretty obvious for any experienced player though.

Not Luck, Just Magic.

43

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

Dune wrote:
Lord Kirby wrote:

Nobody can tell the diffrence between human and bot.

Most of them are pretty obvious for any experienced player though.

Oh he's right. Especially on noobservers you can easily detect them cause they don't even try to hide it.^^
You can even detect them if they aren't that nooby but you can't be 100% sure in that cases.
Recently when I played insta with a rl friend I was about 90% sure that he was using bot after 1 or 2 minutes of playing(and no he isn't bad^^). Later when I asked him he said that he really had been using one.^^

[21:15:20] Tom-d1ed: das ist ja mal so
[21:15:21] Tom-d1ed: extrem schlecht

44 (edited by Kirbs 2012-08-07 18:54:04)

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

Ok, again, I guess ive never seen much bots.
But back in 5.2 I noticed thousands of bots each day.
Dune's right: Its pretty easy to detect one. I prefer to play on servers that botters get kicked 24/7. (and oddly, players that are skilled, get kicked 24/7 too.)

I take back what I said about nobody can tell: Plenty of people can tell, Its just they can't prove it.

no

45 (edited by Sonix 2012-08-07 19:44:04)

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

Lord Kirby wrote:

I take back what I said about nobody can tell: Plenty of people can tell, Its just they can't prove it.

Actually it's not so hard to prove it,record a demo,slow it down and watch botter's aim following perfectly your tee's body. That's the best way to prove it.

Also ingame,you should recognize aimbots by watching their aim accurately they'll always do something that a human wouldnt do.

46

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

Sonix wrote:
Lord Kirby wrote:

I take back what I said about nobody can tell: Plenty of people can tell, Its just they can't prove it.

Actually it's not so hard to prove it,record a demo,slow it down and watch botter's aim following perfectly your tee's body. That's the best way to prove it.

After making that, I will return to the server and kick vote the guy.
Reason: PlyDemoHesBot

Playing Teeworlds since 2011!
"I will always be topless for you"
                  - Günther Branlutte

47 (edited by Sonix 2012-08-07 21:35:51)

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

HeroiAmarelo wrote:
Sonix wrote:
Lord Kirby wrote:

I take back what I said about nobody can tell: Plenty of people can tell, Its just they can't prove it.

Actually it's not so hard to prove it,record a demo,slow it down and watch botter's aim following perfectly your tee's body. That's the best way to prove it.

After making that, I will return to the server and kick vote the guy.
Reason: PlyDemoHesBot

That shows how genius you are,just read the "Ingame" sentence that I wrote.
I used that method (demo recording) to spot some guys that were hiding well their bots and it was pretty useful.

48 (edited by Twiss 2012-08-08 01:21:55)

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

@LordKirby Pls read my posts big_smile, ok there is a mistake (to instead of two) but i think you could understand it. Its my server so i have to prove and kick botters very often, to have a botfree(er) server. I can not change the server and leave thats no solution in this case... And you can really easily decide if so. has a bot or not and trust me i know very good players too and sometimes people think i have a bot. Recognizing toggle Bots is harder but as Sonix said may be you can find them with a record. A server dont need a record he can evaluate the actions much faster.

"SIMPLE: If someone uses a bot, then global banserver is still bad. (what if they stopped botting?)"
You dont get a live ban, 30 minutes are enough? And if expirienced players has this job there would not be so much skilled player getting a ban.

49

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

Since zCatch has implemented banmaster I tried to ban botters on zCatch server. My experience is that it's much work to do that, if you dont want to ban somebody just because anybody says he's botting. So you have to search each player which you think he's botting and watch him till you are sure and ban his IP. But a single IP-ban is very useless since many players know how to bypass it.
Don't understand me wrong, i also would be happy if all these botters will be banned and many times it also worked, but it's exhausting to do that all time and it becomes very difficult to find suspect players.

50

Re: My idea to detect aimbots

Yes, right, a global 30 min ban for a single IP is something anybody with a dynamic IP internet connection can pass. All he/she needs to do is to reach out and reboot the modem and it will reconnect and acquire a different IP. But as I said earlier we can't achieve Impossible, but we can do all we can to make it harder. Also I doubt the majority of botters even know what is "IP", after all, we are dealing with a kid who is cheating on a free online game without achieving anything beside thinking he/she is "Coolawesompro".

But... what if we tried more power?