1 Topic by HeroiAmarelo

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Topic: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

Hi There.
Well, as a Youtuber, I'm forced to record all my gameplays with some external software, in the case Fraps.
This is something awful. The reasons are written bellow.

  • Slow moving

  • HUD (Can be solved with Pack Client, but it uses many resources of my PC)

However, Teeworlds have another recording system: The Demo Records

This system have lots of positive points.

  • Interactivity with Players HUD

  • Doesn't affect the gameplay wile recording

  • Interactivity with the Dyn. Camera

But it have negative points ether.

  • Incompatible with everything except Teeworlds, once it was code to work only on it, with the best performance.

So, I would like to have your opinion about this systems.
On my opinion, a porting system would be incredible, once create a .avi/.mp4 recorder instead a .demo recorder would use many resources, so, the .demo recording should stay, once it doesn't affect the game.

* Create a exporting software, inside or outside Teeworlds* -> I mean, not a recording one, like Fraps

Playing Teeworlds since 2011!
"I will always be topless for you"
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2 Reply by Ich

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

Hey dude.

Can't you just disable HUD in your settings before you start the demo? As far as I know does the demo file just tell the client what happens and doesnt give it any image but I am not sure 'bout it. I know from other games that the guyz play normal and start the demo with movie configs which make grafix more awesome and probably hide bugs so i guessed how demo files worked.
What i don't like if you start a demo in teeworlds then you got this 'play, stop, pause...' thing at the bottom.

3 Reply by Dune

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

  • Removing HUD should not take performance away from your PC.

  • Demo to avi/mp4 translation is not possible because of the point of view problem. A demo records what happens in the game, a movie at a specific area of the map.

Not Luck, Just Magic.

4 Reply by Ich

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

Ah now i get what you mean :S
Yes the HUD at the bottom sux big_smile

5 Reply by mASOUD

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

Is it possible to modify the client to just render a sequence of frames from a demo then feed them to something like Fraps (or better: ffmpeg)and get a nice .demo to .avi converter? This way it doesn't take a long time to record the video, and when you're at it you can make the modified client not to render that HUD.

But... what if we tried more power?

6 Reply by Zargon

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

Can't you record the demo? Does it make the outcome laggy as well?

7 Reply by HeroiAmarelo

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

Dune wrote:

  • Removing HUD should not take performance away from your PC.

Pack client by himself takes performance, at least with me, same with DDRace client.

Playing Teeworlds since 2011!
"I will always be topless for you"
                  - Günther Branlutte

8 Reply by Dune (edited by Dune 2012-07-24 10:56:25)

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

Zargon wrote:

Can't you record the demo? Does it make the outcome laggy as well?

Because the HUD is annoying. Heroi, the only viable option is to remove the HUD and to record it with a software such as fraps. If you still can't find a modified client which is not fucking with your PC, just create your own - it takes 2s, remove every function call at the very bottom of game/client/components/hud.cpp such as RenderCursor() or stuff like that you don't want to see in the record.

Not Luck, Just Magic.

9 Reply by DARK HUNTER

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

I vote for none of these. There should be a demo to video converter. Maybe matricks could help with this (if he finishes bluesky in time)

Once in a century...

10 Reply by Dune

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

DARK HUNTER wrote:

I vote for none of these. There should be a demo to video converter. Maybe matricks could help with this (if he finishes bluesky in time)

Gotta love self quotes...

Myself wrote:

Demo to avi/mp4 translation is not possible because of the point of view problem. A demo records what happens in the game, a movie at a specific area of the map.

Not Luck, Just Magic.

11 Reply by HeroiAmarelo

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

Dune wrote:
Myself wrote:

Demo to avi/mp4 translation is not possible because of the point of view problem. A demo records what happens in the game, a movie at a specific area of the map.

Do you know DeSmuMe, the Nintendo DS emulator?
It have 2 systems:
-> A Movie recorder (We can say that works like .demo Teeworlds records)
-> A AVI recorder (Records everything on an avi file, it can lag while recording, but at the end, the video have normal speed + normal audio (Even with the audio disabled).

So, I think it's not impossible to make a "porter".
I think that demos (Teeworlds demos) have this type of info.:

Server map: --Inside the demo--

Tee 1:
Skin: "skin.png" flag: "ES.png" Clan: "My Clan"
Tee 2:
Skin: "hi.png" flag: "PT.png" Clan: "Heya"

--Etc..--

00:01
Tee 1 : move 90º + jump 90º
Tee 2: hammer 242º

--Etc..--


And AVI/MP4 files have this info.:
Frame 1, Frame 2, Frame 3 (...) + sound

So, DeSuME can record "Demos" (Called Movie) and AVI files, and you might open Movies and record them as AVI.

This 25 seconds video took me 1 min of record, and the result is really good, no lag, correct sound (And no, on my gameplay, I have no sound, once it uses to many resources)

So, are you sure that this type of tecnology can't be adapted to Teeworlds demos?
You can see how does DeSmuMe works, once it is Open-S.

And btw, your coding idea, it would work, there is only 1 problem:
If I kill this functions, I will not be able to skip parts, start, stop or pause the demo. (Does demos have binds? I know you can control the video speed with the mouse ._.)

Playing Teeworlds since 2011!
"I will always be topless for you"
                  - Günther Branlutte

12 Reply by Dune

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

The problem is really nothing technical. It's just that demos record what happen on the WHOLE MAP.
Videos require someone to CONTROL the camera, to show the interesting PLACES of the map.

Not Luck, Just Magic.

13 Reply by Ich

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

I think there are two good options:
- Wait for next version and ask for an option not to view the hud and use keybinds instead or soemthing.
- Get someone who makes a very simple client which is just able disable the HUD and use keybinds instead or something.

I would like to see it in the next version :-)

14 Reply by DARK HUNTER (edited by DARK HUNTER 2012-07-25 11:07:36)

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

So? I meant Client-side recordings to videos. And you would have an option for the HUD to stay or be removed when the demo is converted to an video. So,of course it's impossible to view the whole map in the video format (with today's technologies (this gave me an idea*)) as is also impossible to view the whole map through client side demos.

*Imagine a futuristic video recorder that records everything around it (360 degrees freedom on all axis) and when you play that video on the computer you can move it to see what you want to see (just like in server side demos)

Once in a century...

15 Reply by Dune

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

DARK HUNTER wrote:

*Imagine a futuristic video recorder that records everything around it (360 degrees freedom on all axis) and when you play that video on the computer you can move it to see what you want to see (just like in server side demos)

It already exists. These are demos, and the video program which allows you to travel into the "video" is Teeworlds. Same problem exists in other video games, there are replays for people who want to see the game of their own, and vods for people who just want to eat something and relax while someone is doing the camera (and the commenting). there is no need for a third format.

Not Luck, Just Magic.

16 Reply by ghost

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

I currently do not see any need for a conversion tool (and I think I can asure you that something like that will never be inside of teeworlds). If you really need to make videos (e.g. to upload them on youtube), just record the demo and then use fraps or something similar while viewing the demo (maybe something to disable the hud would be nice here...). I know it takes some time, but it's simply the easiest and best solution.

http://www.johannesloher.com/

17 Reply by Ubuntu

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

ghost wrote:

and I think I can asure you that something like that will never be inside of teeworlds

I don't think so!

oy wrote:

This might be done someday but not in the near future.

(https://github.com/teeworlds/teeworlds/issues/542)

18 Reply by Dune (edited by Dune 2012-07-25 13:56:33)

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

Ubuntu wrote:
ghost wrote:

and I think I can asure you that something like that will never be inside of teeworlds

I don't think so!

oy wrote:

This might be done someday but not in the near future.

(https://github.com/teeworlds/teeworlds/issues/542)

This issue isn't the same thing as what we're talking about.
The issue is about directly recording a video while browsing a demo in Teeworlds.
This thread is about a demo to mp4 converter which is not possible - ever - for the previously given reasons.

Not Luck, Just Magic.

19 Reply by Ubuntu (edited by Ubuntu 2012-07-25 14:46:20)

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

Dune wrote:

This issue isn't the same thing as what we're talking about.
The issue is about directly recording a video while browsing a demo in Teeworlds.
This thread is about a demo to mp4 converter which is not possible - ever - for the previously given reasons.

The thread is not specifically about a demo to mp4 converter. I have carefully read what HeroiAmarelo said. He talked about a tool to export .avi files. If you had taken a look at what the software Desmume does, you would have seen that it does not convert demos to .avi files. It records demos, like we would record Teeworlds demos in the issue #542. It records them in a way that if your computer is not able to record 25 frames per second in real-time, it slows the game so that you will end up with a video that has 25 frames for each second of the demo.

It seems to me that the main problem of HeroiAmarelo is that his computer is a bit too slow. The Issue #542 would solve that if we make sure that Teeworlds captures 25 frames for each second of the demo.

I have already used a similar technique to record videos. For example, you can play the demo at speed x0.5 while you record with Fraps 12 frames per second in real-time. Then, you speed up the video by 200%.

20 Reply by MAP94 (edited by MAP94 2012-07-25 20:24:12)

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

The n-client is already able to convert demo files to video file. this feature will be in the next release. wink

At the moment we support ogg-video but webm (the html5 standard sound/video codec) is planned. if someone would create an avi encoder i would add this too

The newest source can be found here (including demo recording): https://github.com/MAP94/teeworlds

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N-Client: "The alternativ client"
Teeworlds for Mac 10.4

21 Reply by HeroiAmarelo

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

N-Client have everything! yikes
You should be a Teeworlds Dev.
Let's not forget that Oy rarely updates Teeworlds... sad

Playing Teeworlds since 2011!
"I will always be topless for you"
                  - Günther Branlutte

22 Reply by Dune

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

MAP94 wrote:

The n-client is already able to convert demo files to video file. this feature will be in the next release. wink

I'd like to have details on what you mean by "converting demo files to video files", since what Heroi asked is not possible.
Do you simply zoom out to see the whole map? Or is it what Ubu talked about - recording a video file into Teeworlds (but then you till have to do the camera)?

Not Luck, Just Magic.

23 Reply by MAP94 (edited by MAP94 2012-07-26 12:39:38)

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

Dune wrote:
MAP94 wrote:

The n-client is already able to convert demo files to video file. this feature will be in the next release. wink

I'd like to have details on what you mean by "converting demo files to video files", since what Heroi asked is not possible.
Do you simply zoom out to see the whole map? Or is it what Ubu talked about - recording a video file into Teeworlds (but then you till have to do the camera)?

For client demos you don't need to control the camera because you follow a player. For server sided demos or demos where you dont have a controled camera we plan to add camera key frames to do camera movement

As you can see on this image you can select the framerate and the format.
http://n-lvl.com/media/screenshot_2012-07-26_12-34-39_0.png
Framerate: 18 - 600 -> so you could do super nice slow motion videos
Format: For now we just support ogv but webm (the official html5 video format would be added)
Maybe we would add other free video formats

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Teeworlds for Mac 10.4

24 Reply by DARK HUNTER (edited by DARK HUNTER 2012-07-26 12:57:51)

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

Nothing is impossible in the world of programming. It's a simple conversion from .demo to video. Only in the video format you wouldn't have controls over time.

Dune wrote:

Demo to avi/mp4 translation is not possible because of the point of view problem. A demo records what happens in the game, a movie at a specific area of the map.

I was thinking of client side demos (which records "specific area of a map") and not the server side demos (which "record what happens on the entire map")


As for the Inside/Outside problem I vote for inside: You would have a button in the Demo browser something like "Convert to" and then chose format.

But it could still be and outside tool like the DDRace Map Converters.

Once in a century...

25 Reply by Dune (edited by Dune 2012-07-26 13:03:38)

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Re: .Demo Vs .Avi / .MP4

DARK HUNTER wrote:

Nothing is impossible in the world of programming.

Except when you can't guess where the user wants his camera to be. Words of wannabewisedom.


MAP94: makes more sense then, but I'm worried that all the videos that will be produced by this will be camera centered on player.

Not Luck, Just Magic.