26 Reply by Magnet

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

buffer[] wrote:

So your saying just because people don't play vanilla, they don't play TeeWorlds ?

I am merely saying that this is just Teeworlds, from my point of view, there is no 'vanilla'. It's "simply" Teeworlds, which is a shorthand for "Teeworlds' official gametypes". That's what I am talking about. There is certainly a high-level scene in instagib, but it's not the same people nor habits as in Teeworlds. I don't use the word vanilla because it positions the actual, official game as a mod and I don't like that. It has nothing to do with insta or with your team, it's just that mods are mods, and we're on the official forums.

In general, when you read what someone writes, you have to put it in context. My context is: I'm only talking about the official game types and their community. As I said, I didn't intend on starting a flamewar, I was just stating a fact... you can of course disagree smile

I might also repeat that there are some high-level players who use dynamic camera, they just don't spin too. They chose one or another. An example is Denial who was a top dm player with the dynamic camera. If someone comes along and proves it to be possible (maybe a Zpote?), he'll still be the exception!

So to answer your question, people playing a mod are playing a mod, not Teeworlds. Indeed. Some people only play race mod, they aren't really playing TW either yikes. Anyway this is just semantics, we can get past that. I just don't want to use the term vanilla anymore, I see it way too much (and believe it or not, it was me who introduced that term after calling it regular, some other players calling it normal weapons, so I settled for vanilla using the linux kernel as my inspiration. I just take it back wink)

jlou wrote:

Magnet speaks, Magnet's right? I don't think so.
It's not because you play a specific way everyone should do the same.

I'm talking about the high-level scene in Teeworlds and I can assure you no one is spinning and using dynamic camera.

chi1 wrote:

For the record, I do use spinning movement too, so it's doable with dyncam aswell.

I have seen you playing many times, and I believe your movement is not what people call spinning. I guess every people is spinning to a certain degree, but my call is that people are talking here about people who do it more apparently.

27 Reply by LordSk (edited by LordSk 2009-11-13 20:20:25)

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

Then i am your "exception", and I play vanilla. I agree that vanilla is Teeworlds, but Teeworlds is changing, and there is a lot of instagib players atm. We can't consider instagib as others mods, it keeps the gameplay of Teeworlds except the that here we only use laser, not like race mod or everyone else. I think we must consider that as an option, wich makes the gameplay fastest and a bit different.
But we go too far from the original topic, this new player wanted to know why do players spin.

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28 Reply by Azuma.*!

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

Some of the Z Members use it. I think Archi he can use it very good.If you can use it then use it !

29 Reply by Magnet

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

Azuma.*! wrote:

Some of the Z Members use it. I think Archi he can use it very good.If you can use it then use it !

That's wise words. I used to play with it till 0.5 too. If you can manage both, it's good for you, but I think you still have to sacrifice mouse sensitivity. I can't believe someone plays with the camera moving non-stop around them, so if you have a low sens you can circle close to your tee, but in exchange you don't have a very high-sensitivity which brings other advantages. I guess it's a compromise.

I know Archi uses it, but I'm not sure he spins. I never said no high-level player used it, I said no one used it while spinning, but I guess with low sensitivity it could be possible.

30 Reply by Chi11y

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

Magnet wrote:

I might also repeat that there are some high-level players who use dynamic camera, they just don't spin too. They chose one or another. An example is Denial who was a top dm player with the dynamic camera. If someone comes along and proves it to be possible (maybe a Zpote?), he'll still be the exception!

[...]

I'm talking about the high-level scene in Teeworlds and I can assure you no one is spinning and using dynamic camera.

I talked to Denial about this and he says he did indeed play spinning style with dyncam enabled the last few weeks before he went inactive. Also, he plays with high sens.

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31 Reply by yemDX

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

Captain AMN wrote:
Chi11y wrote:
Magnet wrote:

I'm talking about the high-level scene in Teeworlds and I can assure you no one is spinning and using dynamic camera.

I talked to Denial about this and he says he did indeed play spinning style with dyncam enabled the last few weeks before he went inactive. Also, he plays with high sens.

A very interesting conversation going on, and i would like to give my 2 cents on it.

First of all Daniel is/was a high class gamer, but yet only in the TDM 1on1 section and some other less important gametypes. I think nobody considers him a  really good CTF player due to the fact he barely even played CTF and was not really regarded as a threat when playing in the enemy team. Dynamic Cam on dm1 is a whole new story as you can almost see the whole map and henceforth the enemy, knowing where to spam pistol shots before the enemy has seen you.

CTF at this new 2009 level requires much more ability than it used to. People try to cut every unnecessary move to an extent that is hardly improvable. I invite everyone who considers himself an elite player to join one of the pick and play games during the evenings and see for themselves. If not, there are some recent videos on youtube of clanwars. Spinning has more or less become a requirement for efficient quick moving:

Instead of making less and longer hooks, it has proven to be faster to make more but shorter hooks, either in an up-and-down manner or down-down/up-up method, depending on the map and area. Now let's say you were to move from the red base to the blue base in CTF2, you would have to go from left to right as fast as possible. The bigger amount of short hooks forces you to correct your cursor more often while being in movement (which makes it harder to master) and thus you need more space, which is limited by your mousepad. In order to correct the space back so your mouse stays centered in case you need to fire and hook another player,  it is the easiest way to make a tight turn around your tee (especially for up-down-parts) which results in a constant spinning. The useful side effect of this is that you can now, the longer you play with this method, unconciously memorize certain hand-mouse-eye movements most accurately described and compared to an algorithm. You have to focus less on doing the right hook at the right spot and instead focus on strategy and what is best to do next. I can assure everybody that this is impossible to do with dynamic camera, since you need high sensitivity and DPI on your mouse to make these spinning manuveurs possible, and there is no person in this community that will not get a headache and at the same time won't suck at playing although having supercool "dynamic spin". Also dynamic camera is more like an obstacle for spinning, as in some cases you have to cover a bigger distance with your mouse to fulfill a circle. (I do not know to which extent ZPote uses/not uses it, but this clan is not counted into the top CTF clans/players anyway - Sounded unfriendly? Well you guys never took part in CTF clanwars or Tournaments, and none of your members qualified for the Nations Cup, so i am not randomly bashing you - I try to show you some facts). Unlike, focusing on spinning and trying to move according to an inverted principle has only side effects, which is best demonstrated by people trying this on purpose without any special reason, although having felt comfortable with the way they moved before.

In Instagib though, "a point and click game" like Magnet said, the only spinners i know of do not use dynamic camera, and they play good. But we are talking about Teeworlds anyway, so Instagib shouldn't be really mentioned.

"one of the less important game-types"? What is this?  All game-types are just as important as all the others, no matter what it is- and what do you mean instagib isn't part of Teeworlds? Instagib is one of the more popular game-types, and is extremely part of Teeworlds. Please don't have such a closed mind when it comes to what Teeworlds is.

Ex-King of Teeworlds

32 Reply by Chi11y

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

The amount of elitism in this community is quite sad, but AMN have good points.

To use the techniques you're talking about is indeed hard to do without high sens., and having dyncam. enabled would make this tech harder, but still very possible. Also, I wouldn't say that it's the definite way to play teeworlds on a high level, especially since it doesn't make that big of a difference from what I've seen (I'd love to be proven wrong).

Another thing worth mentioning is that movement speed isn't even 50% of being a top player in teeworlds: Aiming, reaction time, tactics and general game overview are other factors which are important in CTF (which you seem to be talking about exclusively). In 1on1, other things are needed, pickup control and unpredictability is more important there, in survival mod, unpredictability was very important, and movespeed not very interesting. TDM is still unchartered territory, I've yet to see good tdm teams (well, first things first we need good tdm maps). Especially calling 1on1 not so important is pure dumb, 1on1 player quality was much higer than ctf player quality for a long time, and many of the top ctf players today started out as 1on1 players before that community died (lots of top players stopped for numerous reasons).

Instagib isn't a balanced mod, so I don't count it as a real gametype. I was among the people who started the instagib mod, and it was always intended as a practice mod to learn to handle the lasergun when it was introduced, not as a real gametype.

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33 Reply by Lappi

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

If you are getting older, reflexes and that egocentric view (hopefully too) will fade away. I haven't got a chance against good young players, but they all tend to be uberconvinced by themselves. Some basic strategy, breaking the common behaviour could allow you to break the defense. If you know your settings and their advantages and disadvanteges, you will be a lot better - if they fit your playstyle. E.g. I've always played with standard settings (that includes dyncam). Dyncam is a must have for strategy based CTF games since it allows you to harrass the flag carrier with a slightly longer view and it is even more fun for defending since you got that critical half second to place your grenade or laser beam first. So to put it in a nutshell: weapon choice, positioning and adjusting to the opponent's play style are much more important!

And just to drop a line about the gamestyles: DM is kinda lame in normal mode, because the frags depend on a good portion of luck. I may err, because I've never played that against pros very often, but it just sucked to let somebody finish your 1hp enemy with a bullet that accidently flew by. CTF is about strategy and you'Ve got to be a generalist not a specialist - that's why I love it. There's nothing better than a pretty f*cking awesome vanilla ctf with good players. 2 months ago when I was playing more regularly, there weren't any free slots on a crowded server with good players. Maybe that's why I am preferring Heroes of Newerth atm.

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34 Reply by Nanzi

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

inp_mousesens 5000
It looks awesome and the other get's jellous. i like doing it big_smile
(Execpt for people says ur bot and kick u from server O_-)

35 Reply by The Messenger

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

it helps me to concentrate wink

The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them.

36 Reply by fameless

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

Well I've been asked quite often about spinning and its reasons.
The most important point is, like mentioned before the movement. But for me its not about speed or aim matters, its just about control while moving. During high lvl vanilla ctf games you'll notice that you need to consider unpredictable facts like random granade bullets, campers, being hooked.
Since the granade bullet speed & shooting delay changed its quite hard to know if its an allied bullet or not, so you better dodge it. If you want to dodge bullets&hammers with quite much speed you'll need to hook at different tiles within 1 second. => 360° hook (Same for campers)
Well the hardest part is to dodge bullets, hammer or whatever while being hooked. First of all you either need to keep distance and follow the enemys hook-movements and hook at different tiles or you get close to your enemy and always try to stay at his back. For both you need to full-control of your tee. There is a difference in just rushing with high speed and capturing the flag alive. And since you won't get much speed in a high lvl 6on6 vanilla ctf game you better start dodging. tongue

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37 Reply by Scream.!*

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

Hey, in Teeworlds, i saw people everywhere saying like "mouselagg? why you spin as that" which Makes me MEAN! big_smile
Well. there are 2 reasons i know:
1. Aimbotters, often trying too hide the Bot, By spinning the gun, which looks good.
2. Pro's does it, couse you feel better, and you get better, somehow, some just do it for fun,
Okay, Here's my Questions:
1. How do the Pro's hit when they spin?
2. some spin VERY ULTRA FAST, and i couldnt do that with 9000 Sensivity!

   Please Answer The Questions.
           i think of this everytime  lol

Moved & Merged your topic. // ~{MS}~ Azon

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38 Reply by Lanta

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

You should read this: http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=5129
By the way, for the point 2, you can decrease cl_mouse_maxdistance and enhance inp_mousesens and mouse dpi.
For number 1... they can do it, it's just training. With the spin you can aim also faster, because when you see an enemy you have to wait only the cursor made a circle and then shot him at the right moment.

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39 Reply by Scream.!*

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

when i spin, i feel better, and when i feel better, i get better!!
and you need too press F1 and write: inp_mousesens 2400
big_smile
@Lanta at that "how to make clan topic", why you don't just let him make a big newb clan without members? he maybe wanna be Leader. so just let him make a big bad clan without members. smile

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40 Reply by ICETE4

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

back in my time spinning means that something is disturbing the game like a lag or some sand on the mousepad.
it can also mean that if u were afk and u come back u spin ur mouse a few times that ur enemy can see that u are back!

but spinning all the time is unusual in a 1on1 match!

41 Reply by TaylorT

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

On basketball mod u got the advantage of playing pretty unpredictable. Also its harder to steal the ball.

42 Reply by donmacp

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

yemDX wrote:

It adds a feel.. I can't really describe it, it just makes you feel 10x better than what you actually are. Try it sometime, you'll see what I mean.


Oh yeah. I agree that it really adds a feel and it will make you look strong and really good player. smile

Please do not advertise non-Teeworlds related websites. // ~{MS}~ Azon

43 Reply by pero1234

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

I saw this topic ( [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?) and I want to know how pros pratice their spining weapon?
I there any good map for pratice that?
What is the best mouse max distance for spining?
What is the best mouse sensitivity for spining? (of course, depending on mouse DPI)

THX!

44 Reply by Landil

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

pero1234 wrote:

I saw this topic ( [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?) and I want to know how pros pratice their spining weapon?
I there any good map for pratice that?
What is the best mouse max distance for spining?
What is the best mouse sensitivity for spining? (of course, depending on mouse DPI)

THX!

If it is a serious question: practice makes perfect. You should disable dyn-cam but the rest is irrelevant.

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Besides -  I am the gfx guy!

45 Reply by hugemariofan (edited by hugemariofan 2010-04-12 01:55:40)

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

Hehe....i remember seeing someone spin and kill me in 1 shot (low health but still....)

And speaking of spining i remember that classic trick where you chain a small platform and constantly float around it. big_smile

Ill mostly be making maps for this site ( if i could figure out how to post maps....)

46 Reply by Kay

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

Its not only done in this game
in games like stick arena pros r doin it too
i think its just to distract others and show that you're pro

47 Reply by kdwayne

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

I have to agree, there are just things that you do because you will look better while doing it and most of the time, you really do not hold that much control over what others think of it.

You just have to try it out for yourself and see how you are going to feel with it. It sort of gives you that type of swag that you can pull of something like that.

48 Reply by ChrisyFieldz

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

For me, It Helps Me Get my mouse Going (Although I'm Definitely NOT Pro,) So I Can Aim and Hook in Different Directions Faster. Some People Because They Use really High Mouse sens and They Can't control it. And For Blocking, Yes. For Swagguh :3

Italic text

49 Reply by Olo

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

Archeologists of the year. Gz

50 Reply by Pikachu

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Re: [QUESTION] Why do pros often spin their weapons?

use this code on f1 then try to do that it is cool.
cl_mouse_followfactor 0
its just fun