DDRace - good and innovative mod? or destroyer of teeworlds, noob mod? (Page 1 of 6)

Off topic: Since when has there been a voting option? Pretty cool.

I totally think this is a great topic. Waaaaay too many topics becoming firing grounds for this discussion... [+]

Anyway, I like DDRace but I can see how it's hurting the original Teeworlds. Although, DDRace is indeed a race, which if you haven't noticed is going to be an official mod soon, so it's not completely a deviant from Teeworlds...
I really don't think new players should start off with non-vanilla mods. They get the wrong idea of Teeworlds and many fail miserably at the fast paced vanilla gametypes, which is a total shame. A side from not letting new gamers from playing any mods-which could only be implemented with an account system-I'm not really sure what we should do about it, but bitching about how it's lame or sucks gets us no where unless we do something about.

What I think is wrong about DDRace is, it's too complicated. If it kept kiss as it's foundation it could have helped a lot more with the development of the official race. I'm not saying we can't find something of use in DDRace, but about 70% of it is probably not going to be implemented. However, the freeze aspect of it makes teamwork a must (usually), which is a great and usually unseen skill in vanilla mods.

1. bee said thats a variant of RACE which may become official (hope not)
2. They get the wrong idea of Teeworlds and many fail miserably at the fast paced vanilla gametypes, which is a total shame.
My opinion: all game types, not based on the official ones, should get banned. (zomb, fly, etc are based on official game types for example, ddrace not)

i cant see the problem here.
every game developper is looking to make his game most likely for its community, so if he recognizes something that is really succesfull and makes the players happy, he is trying to implent this idea in further developpement.

If you ban ddrace you have to ban all the other mods too. and if you only ban ddrace you ll already loose 40% of all Tees out there.

DDrace is a good mod (Dont forget, it is also in development process!!!) it is working very well, and it is getting TW much more fans.

Poll:i like ddrace

Good thread

ddrace has almost nothing to do with teamplay

Good maps can implement fantastic teamwork. Admittedly,  most of the teamwork in DDRace is and can never be used in ctf or tdm, but some it can. Even if it doesn't enhance vanilla teamwork, I like the idea of having to use teamwork all the way in a map.

I don't mind DDRace, but I think there should be some limit of modded servers. Don't ban them all, but limit maximum non-pure servers registered on masterserver. I understand that a huge amount of mod hosters will be angry, but TeeWorlds needs to get back pure gametypes.

In my opinion, DDRace could have been a very good mod, if their developers at least tried to follow KISS, which Teeworlds has its basis on. Right now, there are two main problems.

The maps
Almost all maps that are designed for DDRace are bad done. Sure, they might have a very good gameplay, but it's absolutely not about that. A map is considered good when the author uses the right function for the right thing. That includes all abuse of the unhookable-tileset. The name of the tileset is "unhookable" and therefore, all usages of it should have the unhookable entity. If the author wants to make a part where you can hook, grass-tiles should be considered. This is because of two reasons.
1. People who only have played DDRace will get confused in vanilla when they realise that the unhookable tiles are actually unhookable. It doesn't make sense to have some of them hookable in DDRace, becuase it justs breaks down the main purpose of them.
2. It looks better. It really does look better. The unhookable tiles look like rocks and the grass-tiles look like grass (obviously). In real life, grass is soft and cheerful while rocks are hard and unfriendly. Because of that, it's more natural to have the rock-tiles unhookable.
Another thing that most people who makes the map miss is that they're using too many external pictures. A map can have a little bit of credits in the beginning, but not throughout the whole map. That's so pointless. If someone is really worried about having his map stolen or copied - don't make the map from the veru first beginning. It takes about five extra minutes to remove all the credits if someone really wants to. I can't see the requisite of having the author's name or clan in every corner. Furthermore, almost all maps are using too many layers, just because it's so much easier for the creator. That's also a very bad excuse. If a creator can't make maps, then he shouldn't make any, or, at least learn how to properly create a good map before he/she releases it to public. It's ok to ask in different forums for comments, but then the map creator should have spent some time on the map, not just 20 minutes.

The mod doesn't follow KISS
DDRace is a famous mod to many people because it contains a lot of functions. You can teleport, laser-shots can hit you from nowhere, there are different kind of levels in the remote console and, yeah, I can probably keep on talking forever about all this. The thing is, a god Teeworlds mod doesn't need all this. A good Teeworlds mod shouldn't even have 50% of all these pointless things. Teeworlds follows KISS and therefore the mods should do it too. If a mod doesn't, it should be very innovative and change a lot (for example nodes). DDRace is something in-between, which isn't good. The mod itself takes much more CPU than normal Teeworlds servers and because of all features, it's impossible to have a normal DDRace. What I consider to be a normal DDRace is when there is one freeze-entity and it has a melt-timer. That timer does not include stars which comes out of the tee. If anyone here knows the [xyz] DDRace server, you know exactly what I'm talking about. No /r (in fact, no chat commands at all), no cheats, no helpers/moderators/whatnot, no teleports, no xDxDDxD ur n0t g£rm@n byyye, "kicked by console". That server runned a pure DDRace where the goal was to finish the race in as short time as possible. There was no external crap which you most likely never needed and there was no abusive administrators.
Some people might think that the moderator- and helper-functions are good, and that they bring an extra layer of security to the main hoster, so he knows that his server won't be "taken over". If you're one of them, ask yourself the question "why can I give this person 'helper' but not 'admin'?". A person should only be given extra permissions if he or she is trustworthy. If you trust a person as a moderator, you should trust him as a full administrator too. If it eventually shows up if he or she isn't that good in managing the console, then, you made a bad choice and you have to reconsider it.
The fact that there are "helpers" really does suck too. A DDRace is meant to be completed by a group of tees (pepople) without any external people who are acting on their race. If someone in that group is being abusive, contact nearest administrator and solve it with him/her. Helpers run throw the map in ultra-speed, hooking and thinking that they are doing a great job, making the tees completing the race faster. In fact, that's not requested at all. People simply do not want that, and if they do want helpers, they should train more and become more experienced. If the whole team you're in get stuck, you have to restart - that's basic knowledge and that's why you should be very careful in every step in the map. It's not just like "oh all of us are stuck again, too bad, we have to wait 20 seconds before a helper is arriving". That's not the point. If you get stuck and nobody in your team can help you, restart, or leave the server.

Conclusion
DDRace can be a good mod if the people who are responsible for the maps are making maps with the right tile in the right place and if the developers make the mod pure, without any extra functions but the freeze-tile and the toplist. I haven't mentioned any of these laser-features (why they suck) or super_me or ninja-whatever because it's all obvious that those functions are nothing but abusive.

pro maps are myth? try server "NUT Clan Daddelbude".
off-topic: and actually my favorite mod isnt ddrace, its ctf, but i think ddrace is a good mod too

i knew that someone is gonna say this. to count the "no" votes you have to add this "i hate ddrace" and "i dont like ddrace"

i think the race mod of sushitee is enough. it may become official.

what are bumpers?

fixed

but thx to Kottizen for a post about how to _improve_ DDRace

Kottizen summary:
to follow the kiss, it should remove:
- no teleports (oO even race has this)
- no cheats
- no rcon levels (just admin)
- no freezing stars (i think they are useful)

do you think those rotating lasers and this plasma should be removed too? it adds a dynamic component to the static teeworlds maps

what do you think about doors?

Hi, I like DDrace!!!!!

I like it because it's just another type of race, but then in teaming, just like hprace but in another mod.
There are some maps where you can really try to break the record etc, so that's nice.
At all the people who say it's low skill, try to play one of my maps? I'd say play hardcore3, that will be easy for you ;o

DDrace best, over & out xD

Well this thing here is getting like nowhere.

The problem i see isn´t that DDrace is a bad mod. Its just that both communitys have their pros or cons.

For Ctf community i can say its almost impossible to take part in a high lvl cap game as an "Outsider" -> so ppl cant evolve. Ctf Community is mostly a bunch of isolated people who only play within their own groups. Next thing is tehre is variety I hardly see any of them playing any other maps than the official ones.

As for Tdm / Dm it´s more less dead in high lvl realms due to bad gameplay ( rework of powerups badly needed ).

Thats the basic problem in my opinion.

Next thing is DDrace offers a noobfriendly scene since there isnt any high lvl movement required. Its only logical when people face more or less these two options,  a dead end vanilla community where I cant evolve or a noobfriendly place where i can become a high lvl player fast, that they are chosing DDrace over Vanilla.

I dont blame DDrace for being a bad mod. I just wanna say its not competitive at all and as said before its more like a social network than a game due to bad maps.

Well i wanna end this post with a quote: "Teeworlds is a game , not a game engine"

greets Marik

I don't know what to think about DDRace, it has some of the pros of race, but like Dune said, all these cheats, like going through walls etc. are making it a noob mod, espacially, like also said by Dune, if you don't want to be hooked through the entire map from cheaters.
Something else:

More than a half hour is nothing for a map. I can't imagine that anyone can create a vanilla-map with doodads in 30 minutes, even if it's the worst map ever. And for DDRace you don't even need doodads so I agree with this:

Oh, that explains many things