1 Topic by analog (edited by analog 2010-06-15 03:52:40)

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Topic: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

Well, since I've seen practically no activity from Lord and his Zbots, I want to ask any member of this community to try to make a new one? It doesn't have to be half as good as his bots, but at least able to fight properly. I'm sure many people reading this also want to play with zbots offline.

There is Patafix's mod, to train instagib.
It is here: http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=6204

Something like that, except vanilla compatibility. The basics of the default gametypes are:

- Using the hook to pull the player close when using shotgun and hammer
- Using the pistol and firing when the player is running away, or too far
- Uses the grenade's arc to advantage
- Can have somewhat good movement
- Laser's aim is not 100% correct (like the link shown above)

Basically, I'd like a server-side bot that I can fight against offline. If possible, the gametype CTF. But just tdm would be fine wink

Well, if someone can do this, I'd be happy. Or else I'd have to wait for Lord's which has no chance of leaking out.

PS. This could majorly send many people over from those horrible ddrace mods to vanilla!

PPS. Thanks a lot for reading, and thanks even more if you decide to make these.

http://www.nuby.posterous.com

2 Reply by Bee

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

Bots can never quite get to the skill level/comprehension brain power as a real player... why would you want one?
Making a bot like that takes much programing since using the grenade's arc to their advantage requires the bot to know where the grenade will land or if it hits them in mid air; that takes a serious calculation system, consideration: distance, speed, land, and time, which all of those gives it's own spin on things, makes it almost impossible for a good grenade launcher aim.  You can ask for one, but most likely no one will make one; it's very hard. neutral

Give others the respect you wish to be respected with. In the mean time, enjoy the website!

3 Reply by Dune (edited by Dune 2010-06-15 07:22:05)

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

alias wrote:

Well, since I've seen practically no activity from Lord and his Zbots, I want to ask any member of this community to try to make a new one? It doesn't have to be half as good as his bots, but at least able to fight properly. I'm sure many people reading this also want to play with zbots offline.

You can't do it better than zbots in vanilla (DM/CTF) wink

alias wrote:

- Uses the grenade's arc to advantage

That's precisly a point where zbots are definitively the best.

You're not just requiring programming skills here, but also physic skills. You would need a programming team them - and by the way, Lord didn't code alone.

Note: Solving the differential equation of the ballistic of the grenade is possible by switching frames, but it's very hard (you have to solve an imaginary part and a real part, kinda hot). Even ZBots are using approximations.

Not Luck, Just Magic.

4 Reply by Sushi Tee

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

writing a good grenade aim is not that hard as u describe here. U just have to find the right angle with distance and direction with some calculation and testing with correct factors. After this is done just predict the player position considering distance and speed and there u go. It dont have to be that precise as u might think wink
And yes i wrote a grenade aim for my server sided bots wink
Im using the same formulas for pistol aim with other factors ^^

The hardest thing is the movement. How does a bot know that there is a wall? How does a bot know that the target is there and there. How does he know that there is a wall between. Actually that can be solved quite easy but how does a bot know how to get around the wall and than fight?. How does he knoe how to use the wall and stuff for movement?
U need a pathfinding algorithm and this is damn hard and will take the biggest part of CPU time if u dont want to use speciall waypoints like the zbots. wink

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5 Reply by Lanta (edited by Lanta 2010-06-15 09:21:25)

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

I developed some vanilla bots as an exam, but they are still incomplete. They can manage all weapons except the rocket launcher, I still have problems with balistic.
Btw, they are nothing compared to Zbots and (for now) they are good only to play DM.

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6 Reply by Dune

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

U need a pathfinding algorithm and this is damn hard and will take the biggest part of CPU time if u dont want to use speciall waypoints like the zbots.

Right, if you edit the zbot's map they aren't the pure dm1, but I think adding paths is the best way to help bots to move correctly...

Not Luck, Just Magic.

7 Reply by analog

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

Bee wrote:

Bots can never quite get to the skill level/comprehension brain power as a real player... why would you want one?
Making a bot like that takes much programing since using the grenade's arc to their advantage requires the bot to know where the grenade will land or if it hits them in mid air; that takes a serious calculation system, consideration: distance, speed, land, and time, which all of those gives it's own spin on things, makes it almost impossible for a good grenade launcher aim.  You can ask for one, but most likely no one will make one; it's very hard. neutral

There already is one, just not released

Lanta, any chance you will finish them and release them, or are they private?

If not, it's fine for you to close this now.

http://www.nuby.posterous.com

8 Reply by Lanta (edited by Lanta 2010-06-15 18:23:42)

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

alias wrote:
Bee wrote:

Bots can never quite get to the skill level/comprehension brain power as a real player... why would you want one?
Making a bot like that takes much programing since using the grenade's arc to their advantage requires the bot to know where the grenade will land or if it hits them in mid air; that takes a serious calculation system, consideration: distance, speed, land, and time, which all of those gives it's own spin on things, makes it almost impossible for a good grenade launcher aim.  You can ask for one, but most likely no one will make one; it's very hard. neutral

There already is one, just not released

Lanta, any chance you will finish them and release them, or are they private?

If not, it's fine for you to close this now.

I'm not going to release them because they are not competitive at all. Better than Rajh's Zombies, but the movements still sucks and I don't want to release uncompleted works. Maybe I will resume the project after my exams, august 2010.

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9 Reply by Dune

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

If you're waiting for something better than the Rajh's Zombies, just spam the Lord's mailbox so that he releases his version smile

Not Luck, Just Magic.

10 Reply by buffer[]

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

alias wrote:

email? x)

Won't be posted in a topic wink

Moreover, no matter how you'll ask Lord, he won't release ZBots tongue
Still, be free to try.

(PS : Lord isn't reading Teeworlds forum anymore wink )

|ZPote| buffer[]'s posterous

11 Reply by analog

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

Meh can someone just recode the CORP mod from bobynator for better movement, and use shotgun when close?

http://www.nuby.posterous.com

12 Reply by Pata

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

hmm, I am writing on a pathfinding System, which would be very nice for bots wink
I didnt Add Vanilla to Train because at first they need a good Movement maybe  for CTF wink
There will be Vanilla/better Movement when i'll find time smile

13 Reply by Lanta

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

Patafix wrote:

hmm, I am writing on a pathfinding System, which would be very nice for bots wink

Dijkstra? A*?

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14 Reply by analog

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

Thanks patafix, I'll look forward to that smile

http://www.nuby.posterous.com

15 Reply by LordSk

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

buffer[] wrote:
alias wrote:

email? x)

Won't be posted in a topic wink

Moreover, no matter how you'll ask Lord, he won't release ZBots tongue
Still, be free to try.

(PS : Lord isn't reading Teeworlds forum anymore wink )

Yea... This Lord is really too busy.

lordskelethom - want to reach me quickly? https://discord.gg/teeworlds

16 Reply by Pata

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

A* is something different, i'll write something with way-points.
When my system doesnt work, maybe i could build A* to Train smile

17 Reply by Dune

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

buffer[] wrote:
alias wrote:

email? x)

Moreover, no matter how you'll ask Lord, he won't release ZBots tongue
Still, be free to try.

We're not talking about bots, but about the last version of ZOMB wink

Not Luck, Just Magic.

18 Reply by analog

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

What is A*. I know, a stupid question.

http://www.nuby.posterous.com

19 Reply by Lanta

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

alias wrote:

What is A*. I know, a stupid question.

A* is a pathfinding algorithm based od Dijkstra algorithm that achieves better performance (with respect to time) by using heuristics.
More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A*

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20 Reply by Sushi Tee

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

Btw... i allready made an A* Pathfinding system for tw... its released in nox nebulas catching mod... so if someone wanna have a look xD
It works quite well... calculation in ctf2 from flag to flag is no problem for CPU and its using no waypoints at all smile

Btw... the Zbots are using A* too if i remember right but additionaly with waypoints smile

uptee - a simple web interface for hosting and maintaining teeworlds servers
teerace - a website gathering results of trusted Race-mod servers providing global ranking and statistics
*gV* rox ^^

21 Reply by Lanta (edited by Lanta 2010-06-17 22:13:14)

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

Sushi Tee wrote:

Btw... i allready made an A* Pathfinding system for tw... its released in nox nebulas catching mod... so if someone wanna have a look xD
It works quite well... calculation in ctf2 from flag to flag is no problem for CPU and its using no waypoints at all smile

Btw... the Zbots are using A* too if i remember right but additionaly with waypoints smile

Thanks for the useful information. I did all the Dijkstra work for nothing big_smile
Btw, all links seems to be down:
http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=4810

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22 Reply by Sushi Tee (edited by Sushi Tee 2010-06-17 23:59:18)

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

not there...
there: https://github.com/NoxNebula/teeworlds/tree/Catching

btw... A* is better than Dijkstra... at least for tw since its a lot more prioritized. Dijkstra is only useful if u dont know the target position but in tw u allways know it wink

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teerace - a website gathering results of trusted Race-mod servers providing global ranking and statistics
*gV* rox ^^

23 Reply by analog

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

Wait, so does this mean someone can use this pathfinding to build off of, and make their own?

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24 Reply by buffer[] (edited by buffer[] 2010-06-18 07:47:14)

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

Sushi Tee wrote:

It works quite well... calculation in ctf2 from flag to flag is no problem for CPU and its using no waypoints at all smile

Btw... the Zbots are using A* too if i remember right but additionaly with waypoints smile

Yeah, cause A* with taking each case as a node is using to much CPU : ZBots needed to calculate path nearly every tick, to take in count pickups, incoming enemies, new objectives, etc, so basicly it was too much for CPU usage.

You can make it for a flag capture, not for a full game smile

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25 Reply by Dune

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Re: [REQUEST] Any good programmers who can make bots?

'buffer[ wrote:
']

Nice bug big_smile

Not Luck, Just Magic.