1 (edited by Bee 2009-06-24 18:43:40)

Topic: [SUGGESTION] Let us brainstorm, suggested rules for new users.

I think this will help prevent some dumb questions from happening again.

"Every new member must read the [Rules].
And cannot post anything on the forums, until done so.
Also, every time a new member tries to post a topic, they will be stopped by sign saying: "Please Check the "F.A.Q. or Search Function" first, your question/topic is bound to have happened before"
Then they may post after checking. Disobeying the Rules after given a clear warning to read the rules, will give the moderators power to not give a reason why for closing your topic, or banning you for #days. (But most of them are nice enough to post why.) Also a new attachment has been added to the website a, "F.A.Q." (Frequently, asked, questions), Button has been added for the questions that seem to be asked over and over again."                                  [FAQ was thought up by: torch] wink

Or something like that... what do you, the community think?

Give others the respect you wish to be respected with. In the mean time, enjoy the website!

2 (edited by Tom94 2009-06-22 20:47:11)

Re: [SUGGESTION] Let us brainstorm, suggested rules for new users.

People will click through the rules and ignore the signs while creating topics.
The people reading those popups usually also know how to use the search function or find pinned topics...
I once was Moderator in elitepvpers.de (biggest mmorpg-hacking forum around) and we dealt with the same problem.
The stuff you suggest here unfortunately didnt help at all :S

Though, nice to see people caring about the forums smile

# against it

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VISIT US: http://monkeystyle.xooit.com/
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3 (edited by Bee 2009-06-22 21:17:20)

Re: [SUGGESTION] Let us brainstorm, suggested rules for new users.

Hum... well of course you can't stop all of it.
But I think it will decrease... right?

One thing I forgot to mention is. Some where in there it will should also say: "Ignoring the Rules will result in an instant #day ban" This will allow the moderators to not give an reason why for, closing a topic of someone, or banning someone."

So if they want to complain, they have to realize that the rules are for helping them too.

Give others the respect you wish to be respected with. In the mean time, enjoy the website!

4

Re: [SUGGESTION] Let us brainstorm, suggested rules for new users.

Although a nice idea, there will be quite a few practical issues with this solution:

1. Most people would just click the rules away without reading them.
2. Currently people can read the forum, even without logging in. Your solution would block content to the people who don't have an account.
3. There's no point in forcing people to hit a checkbox saying they used the search function when there's no way to prove they did so.
4. It would cost the moderators too much time to check every topic on the usage of the search function and ban these people then it does to answer the asked question.
5. It would be against the Teeworlds spirit to ban people who haven't breached the rules.
6. When people need to use the search function they'll dig up all sort of ancient topics who'll then be resurrected with little to none useful info.

People need to understand that it's impossible to make all users use the search function and no amount of enforcing or directing will change this. People need to respect any user asking any (sensible) question, and take the time to answer it to the best of their abilities. If you don't like the fact that this means answering the same questions more then once, just don't react. Others won't mind answering it once more. Don't yell "USE SEARCH", and don't try to enforce an impossible policy which will only reflect negative on new users and will only cost the moderators more and more resources.

5

Re: [SUGGESTION] Let us brainstorm, suggested rules for new users.

Azon your very true ..

" Don't yell "USE SEARCH" " the best idea is to post the things requested from the person and add somethink like this: "p.s. try out the search function next time before posting".. i know some other forums .. and it helps (decrease from 20-40%)..

@|X-treme|Bee

ever seen an 10 year old child reading rules? NO?!.. so .. thats the point.
you can add 100 checkboxes with "i have read the rules" but no one will read it.

Just do it like now..

be friendly
try to help
and maybe give some tipps with the search function .. and all will work

Remember me? Questions? Just leave a message, I will respond within 72 hrs!

6

Re: [SUGGESTION] Let us brainstorm, suggested rules for new users.

Dani wrote:

" Don't yell "USE SEARCH" " the best idea is to post the things requested from the person and add somethink like this: "p.s. try out the search function next time before posting".. i know some other forums .. and it helps (decrease from 20-40%)..

Better to post the Search link. smile

check out these maps: infiltrate - choco - dustycloud

7 (edited by Bee 2009-06-23 05:18:39)

Re: [SUGGESTION] Let us brainstorm, suggested rules for new users.

Azon wrote:

1. Most people would just click the rules away without reading them.

The way I wanted to do it is: They can't use the forum without reading the Rules first.
Hence forth... you don't "have" to read it. But if you are a new member, (meaning you can post a topic) you can't do anything else, until you read it.

Azon wrote:

2. Your solution would block content to the people who don't have an account.

I'm not sure were you got that.
But it would only apply to new members. (Not guests)

Azon wrote:

3. There's no point in forcing people to hit a checkbox saying they used the search function when there's no way to prove they did so.

This is for three reason:
1: Knowing that there is a search function.
2: That you can use it, and it will probably help you.
3: Knowing if they want to ignore, that is your problem. And the mod's will not have to give you a reason "why?" when they do close your topic, or when they ban you. (If you did something wrong)

Azon wrote:

4. It would cost the moderators too much time to check every topic on the usage of the search function and ban these people then it does to answer the asked question.

I'm not sure what you quite said... Can you rephrase it?

Azon wrote:

5. It would be against the Teeworlds spirit to ban people who haven't breached the rules.

You would only get banned if you go agents the rules. Not if you don't read them. wink

Azon wrote:

6. When people need to use the search function they'll dig up all sort of ancient topics who'll then be resurrected with little to none useful info.

People need to understand that it's impossible to make all users use the search function and no amount of enforcing or directing will change this. People need to respect any user asking any (sensible) question, and take the time to answer it to the best of their abilities. If you don't like the fact that this means answering the same questions more then once, just don't react. Others won't mind answering it once more. Don't yell "USE SEARCH", and don't try to enforce an impossible policy which will only reflect negative on new users and will only cost the moderators more and more resources.

Well it's a fact that I don't like people asking the same questions over and over again. It's extremely annoying I'd think to anyone. And that is why I made this topic.
I didn't think what I wanted was that impossible and bad, but I'm willing to let this go. smile

Give others the respect you wish to be respected with. In the mean time, enjoy the website!

8 (edited by Azon 2009-06-23 10:33:49)

Re: [SUGGESTION] Let us brainstorm, suggested rules for new users.

Let me simplify some things for you:
1. People take the path of least resistance. Therefor they'll only check the necessary checkboxes (requirements) without actually reading the rules or using the search function. Nothing can change this, and there's no way to make them do this.
2. It would cost moderators more time to enforce this policy then it would cost them to answer the asked question. Especially because they'll be supported by the community when answering questions, while they would be on their own if they had to enforce this policy.
3. You and you alone decide whether it's in your interest to answer a (often asked) question. Similar questions will pop up as long as the community grows and new players join the forum. If you don't feel like answering these, nobody will force you to do so or think bad of you.

For these (and earlier stated) issues it seems that this wouldn't be the most effective solution. It could be valuable to discuss the concept and come up with other ideas. Until then the community needs to accept their task by answering any (answerable) question, no matter how often it's asked.

9

Re: [SUGGESTION] Let us brainstorm, suggested rules for new users.

How about a seperate tab for the FAQ section? Maybe in the forum and in the website.
Also there should be information about "installing" Teeworlds, starting the map editor and creating a map in the FAQ.

Especially information about the map editor is nearly non existent on the website.

aka cheesy

10

Re: [SUGGESTION] Let us brainstorm, suggested rules for new users.

grummi wrote:

How about a seperate tab for the FAQ section? Maybe in the forum and in the website.
Also there should be information about "installing" Teeworlds, starting the map editor and creating a map in the FAQ.

Especially information about the map editor is nearly non existent on the website.

i first got teeworlds cuz i didnt have to install it - bee, i agree with tom, azon, and the others who said the idea. I mean, you can t prove people read it, right,? are you going to go to their house and make em?

hehhehehehehehe.

11

Re: [SUGGESTION] Let us brainstorm, suggested rules for new users.

I'm sure there are things we can do to minimize useless posts, but this isn't really a good solution.

Also, you addressed this to "devs" -- you probaby mean "mods." Also, set a more descriptive topic, such as "suggested rules for new users."

12

Re: [SUGGESTION] Let us brainstorm, suggested rules for new users.

Azon wrote:

Let me simplify some things for you:
1. People take the path of least resistance. Therefor they'll only check the necessary checkboxes (requirements) without actually reading the rules or using the search function. Nothing can change this, and there's no way to make them do this.

Ture

Azon wrote:

2. It would cost moderators more time to enforce this policy then it would cost them to answer the asked question. Especially because they'll be supported by the community when answering questions, while they would be on their own if they had to enforce this policy.

I thought it would be moderately easy to enforce this. They would only have to do is:
Check the topic to see if they are breaking the rules.
And see if they are a new member by #/#/09. If so then bad them for #days.

Azon wrote:

3. You and you alone decide whether it's in your interest to answer a (often asked) question. Similar questions will pop up as long as the community grows and new players join the forum. If you don't feel like answering these, nobody will force you to do so or think bad of you.

For these (and earlier stated) issues it seems that this wouldn't be the most effective solution. It could be valuable to discuss the concept and come up with other ideas. Until then the community needs to accept their task by answering any (answerable) question, no matter how often it's asked.

I like if people got together and had a brain storm. wink

grummi wrote:

Especially information about the map editor is nearly non existent on the website.

I think there is only one topic with it, but it's full of info. big_smile

lolwtfcoookies98 wrote:

bee, i agree with tom, azon, and the others who said the idea. I mean, you can t prove people read it, right,? are you going to go to their house and make em?

This is for three reason:
1: Knowing that there is a search function.
2: That you can use it, and it will probably help you.
3: Knowing if they want to ignore, that is your problem. And the mod's will not have to give you a reason "why?" when they do close your topic, or when they ban you. (If you did something wrong)

teetow wrote:

I'm sure there are things we can do to minimize useless posts, but this isn't really a good solution.

Also, you addressed this to "devs" -- you probaby mean "mods." Also, set a more descriptive topic, such as "suggested rules for new users."

okay... I'll change it into a brainstorm topic.
Well to both actually, because if this when put though you dev's you have to encode the website to change it. And thanks.

Give others the respect you wish to be respected with. In the mean time, enjoy the website!

13

Re: [SUGGESTION] Let us brainstorm, suggested rules for new users.

|X-treme|Bee wrote:
grummi wrote:

Especially information about the map editor is nearly non existent on the website.

I think there is only one topic with it, but it's full of info. big_smile

That may be, but on the website it is not even mentioned how you start the map editor. It would be enough to simply link to the topic.

aka cheesy

14

Re: [SUGGESTION] Let us brainstorm, suggested rules for new users.

grummi wrote:

That may be, but on the website it is not even mentioned how you start the map editor. It would be enough to simply link to the topic.

neutral Yeah it would be great if there was a button.
But suggestions for teeworlds it self, is not what this topic is about. wink

Give others the respect you wish to be respected with. In the mean time, enjoy the website!

15

Re: [SUGGESTION] Let us brainstorm, suggested rules for new users.

I recently used the forums in read-only mode but this post has drawn my attention. I have some ideas on how to reduce the clutter/rubbish which is stacking up around here. You can't do nothing with new users asking the same and same questions again. But there is a way out. My suggestions:

1. make a category for FAQ, it should contain: previous topics, one per question, stripped down from meaningless posts and locked. So when someone asks a question for ex. "What is a mod/how to mod" instead of getting angry and replying with
- use the search function/google
- or actually explaining
a user/mod posts a link to the appropriate thread in the FAQ category and locks the topic.
User policy: Do not reply, or if you do, dont say anything just a link to the appropriate section, then report to a mod.
Mod policy: post a link to the app. section if not done yet and lock the thread.
This takes some work to do especially making the extra category and adding old stripped threads to it, but it only has to be done once. Note: this still wont help if you keep replying with one-sentence meaningless "OMG! Use the search funktion!" posts to new threads. You ( the users ) have to be mature too, if you expect new users to be mature!

2. this game deserves a better documentation, so if someone is looking for information they dont have to search the old threads - which sometimes results in necroposting. The teewiki already has a lot of information, but it lacks a nice front page with links to the most popular content/most FAQ. If it would have such a page it could replace the obsolete documentation we have so far. Compare http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page to http://teewiki.info/wiki/Main_Page

We will meet again when the flowers spread their glorious scent of victory and the birds sing us the melody of justice...