1 (edited by suiraclaw 2009-08-23 09:37:11)

Topic: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

Hi all.

First of all: weapon choice. Questions:
- is it actually important to switch weapons often?
- if yes, is there a rule of thumb when you should do it and/or at which distance?
- I'm aware that the gun is useful for chasing somebody, but I find myself never using it. If I do use it, I forget too reload it (swap to the empty gun when alone). How often should I use the gun and is it worth slowing down for the gun to reload?
- do you ever use the hammer above the shotgun or just the gun?
- what is the role of the laser weapon?

Second area I want advice on is movement. Questions:
- are the grenade launcher tricks (to gain speed and altitude) actually important to learn for real battles?
- I'd like to request some demo's showing how to gain momentum with just the hook.
- what is the best way to learn how to hook?

Otherwise, other nice tricks, links (I already visited the wiki) and tips would be useful. Any must see demo's and video's showing good players would be nice as well.

---------------

edit: (also changed a bit in the above part)

Universal law: guides don't make you a good player, but they prevent you from being completely horrible.

That said, asking questions and reading topics like these will make sure you're never the worst player on a pub server (as you know the basic rules), but it will only get you so far.

2 (edited by Stephanator 2009-04-05 20:21:50)

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

Of course you can kill an enemy with just 1 weapon, but it´s better to switch becouse every weapon is made for 1 special situation. When you hook an enemy and you are near to him, use shotgun because with grenade you hurt yourself. Otherwise grenade is very good too make high damage in a short time. The gun is good when your enemy is more far away, and here comes the laser into the game. When your enemy is running away and you cant hook any more, use laser to give him the last shot. I only use hammer when I have no other weapons and are very near to the opponent.
Not all tricks are useful, but on ctf2 you should be able to rocket jump to fly over the middle so you can avoid campers. Imporoving hook comes with the time, just play ctf2 and try to hold back an enemy. For practising you can try only to use hammer.

Here is a demo of a clanwar.
http://qi.m0g.net/cw_results/demos/qi_v … agnet.demo

Qi - high level gaming
qi.m0g.net

3

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

Do you want help with 1on1 or ctf? Theyre quite different from eachother.
Or just general knowledge?

4

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

Capture the flag mainly.

The demo was very helpful, although I still have no idea how he moves at that speed. /goes practise more

5 (edited by Daniel 2009-04-05 22:38:15)

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

The movement will come by itself ^^

Im not very good at CTF myself but..

* Hooking the enemy and try to pistol/hammer them when you just respawned and they are in your base is a good thing to do.
* When a player in your team has the flag, the enemy will mainly focus on killing him, this makes it very easy to predict their movement AND they will not shoot at you, pick up a rocketlauncher and own their asses.
* I think rocketlauncher is mostly used when you are attacking/defending - and shotgun when you have enemy flag and are in their base, there are some occasions when shotgun is better in attack/defense and rocketlauncher when you have the flag. If you get out of their base when you have the flag, rocketlauncher is very good since they will be chasing you and try to stop you no matter what, just run away and shoot back at them with rockets with a ease.
* Pistol is not very usefull in CTF, pistol is mostly used at corridors and paths that players take alot, just block the "path"/corridor with pistol and you can get 3-10 hits sometimes.

edit 1:
Also, when hooking someone it easy to get a rockethit on him just as you hooked (since he will be flying towards you and the rocket, towards him), switching to shotgun if you have one after hitting with that rocket is usually a good idea.

edit 2:
"Reloading" the gun is not very necassary if youre not defending, and it's a huge map with a few people playing. If you're playing public attackers also come very randomly, so reloading the gun just makes you useless if someone attack while you're doing it. In clan/organized matches you can usually guess when an attacker is coming and when he isn't, just reload when he isn't.

6

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

Here a little demo, you can view it with 0,5 speed to see where to hook to gain speed.
Btw the rocket jump is very useful but maybe too hard for you atm.

http://rapidshare.de/files/46551334/tutorial3.demo.html

Qi - high level gaming
qi.m0g.net

7 (edited by Marik 2009-04-06 00:17:30)

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

1.It depends on the situation  oppenent number , range between you and your oppenent etc.


2.i would say just as your playstyle is the more your used to a weapon the more you will use it.


3.I use gun  in situations when the range is to high for other weapons or when i´m out of other weapons ammo. But the most common situation for me is when i wanna detect enemys with it.


4. Yeah Hammer is quite usefull in many situations and most enemys will hate you when you use it effective.

5.
Well its the most annoying and most lovely weapon for me. I get pissed off when other ppl kill me unexpected. But on the other hand you can kick others butts with this weapon the way you would dream of with only grenade launcher or shotgun.
But i think its quite difficult to use it and it takes some practise to get along with it.

Movement:
1.
Well in 1on1 matches i think they are never used. till now i can´t remember anyone using them.
But complete opposite in ctf matches while escaping with the flag.

2. http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopi … 358#p38358

3. Practise Practise Practise it´s coming with the time



Well my last advise is play the game the way you have the most fun using your favourite weapons etc.

8

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

good questions smile here my opinions:
"is it actually important to switch weapons often?"
i do so... it is always diffrent in which situation you are. if other tees are far away from you but you know they are coming in your direction, it is awlays usefull to shot a grenade-rain in their direction. and if you have much armor and health you can use the grenade as the shotgun: hook the emenys, be close to them, and shot them. you will do damage to your own but skilled players do everything to bring the flag back ;-).

"I'm aware that the gun is useful for chasing somebody, but I find myself never using it. If I do use it, I forget too reload it (swap to the empty gun when alone). How often should I use the gun and is it worth slowing down for the gun to reload?"
on maps like ctf2, where are long ways without any hurdles its very usefull to fight emenys with low health... the pistol is fast and has nearly no arc in it's trajectory so you can be sure that you hit the emeny often and take him the last health. If you use the pistol often and forget to reload it, only try to switch to it that it can reload if there is no emeny in your base wink

"do you ever use the hammer above the shotgun or just the gun?"
there is a easy answer for this question: you love the hammer or you hate the hammer! i use the hammer nearly as much as the shotgun becouse it punchs faster the only big disadvantage is the low range, very skilled players dont leave you come close enaught to punch them... but there are always moments on which you hook the emeny and he hooks you on at this moments, the hammer is perfect!

"what is the role of the laser weapon?"
my serious opinion: laser sucks... i dont like it and nearly dont use it... anyway i cant aim with this weapon sad

"are the grenade launcher tricks (to gain speed and altitude) actually important in real matches? Are they often used in big battles?"
not as often as in races but sometimes.  usually you can get swing good on the standard maps but some areas are just too flat to get speed with the normal way (hooking), and if the emeny has your flag, grenade jumps speedups are the only way to catch him up!

"what is the best way to learn how to hook?"
hooking other tees:
be defender and hook everybody who wants to take your flag then kill him with grenade, shotgun or hammer (or all of these weapons) after some time you can hook other tees while sleeping wink
hooking walls and platforms to get speed:
hehe, ctf2 is the best place to train it just play for fun and swing around there you will find out some cool movements and will be a super pro smile

much fun and succes with this tips, i hope we all can see a new good player soon big_smile

Please use an english signature //heinrich5991

9 (edited by Franchan 2009-04-06 23:38:13)

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

wow...
i didnt know there was so much to teeworlds...

But nice guides!

and demo

smile

10

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

Teeworlds is all about movement. If you train your moves and speed, the rest will follow shortly (weapons, etc). You should practice on fastcapping ctf2 till you make it in 10s. That will require that you cut a lot of useless moves you make that make you slower smile.

As for weapons, all has been said already. Each weapon has its usage and you should switch using binds. Also, disable dynamic camera, active always show name plates, use binds and not nextweapon/prevweapons, look at better players and copy them. It will come if you play regularly.

11

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

- is it actually important to switch weapons often?

The only times I switch weapons often, is to see how much ammo I have, and if I am in a epic battle. xD


- if yes, is there a rule of thumb when you should do it and/or at which distance?

The only rule of thumb I know about that is, switch weapons if you want a different one,
and the only time I'd switch a weapon for distance, is the gun and rocket launcher. (they can go the farthest)


- I'm aware that the gun is useful for chasing somebody, but I find myself never using it. If I do use it, I forget too reload it (swap to the empty gun when alone). How often should I use the gun and is it worth slowing down for the gun to reload?

How often I use the gun is when some one is running away fast and I really want him/her dead, I use the gun for rapid shot, and since I get about 14 guns shot, I have a good chance of hitting my target.

And, I wouldn't slow down, the gun is (for me) to hard to hit with, and not powerful enough.
I'd just switch to a new weapon. 


- do you ever use the hammer above the shotgun or just the gun?

I actually like the hammer alot. smile
The only time I'd use the hammer over shotgun... is if some one is running away with the flag, and I think that he/she is about to die, and if I get a hold of them with my hook, then I'd use the hammer over rifle. (hammer reloads faster than rifle)


- what is the role of the laser weapon?

1: I use the laser like a sniper some times, like in CTF, if I am defending the flag some times I will point the laser right where the flag is, and once some one comes by, I shot, since I have a good chance of hitting them, since I know there they are going. >:}

2: I use the laser some times when I am casing someone in a kind of area were there is nothing in the way, and the ceiling is low to the ground. Like in the top middle part in ctf5.


- what is the best way to learn how to hook?

I just got good at it with practice, but if you want to be really good with the hook, find a race map, and practices the swinging parts alot.

Give others the respect you wish to be respected with. In the mean time, enjoy the website!

12

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

Might as well reply again, maybe other new players might find my experiences interesting.

I watched a lot of demo's (a lot of them at 0.5 speed) and I'm confident that was time well spent. What I learned:
- the weapons aren't that specific as I thought.
- hooking the ground below can be useful for gaining momentum (I litterally never do this, should try it a bit)
- the "corner bug" thingy, where the hook is attached below a solid object and you swing yourself on it (and, although impossible the hook is going through that solid object for a second) is pretty important in order to avoid making a too big arc around an object.
- when to use rocket jump in ctf 2
- some general nice tricks that are too hard to explain in text.

I also followed the advice to practise in the ctf 2 map a bit, but I'm still stuck at the time 15.89 (for capturing the flag). There's certainly room for improvement though (I can't do rocket jumps consistently).

Otherwise, thanks for the advice/answers smile .

13 (edited by Magnet 2009-04-07 15:49:40)

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

suiraclaw wrote:

I also followed the advice to practise in the ctf 2 map a bit, but I'm still stuck at the time 15.89 (for capturing the flag). There's certainly room for improvement though (I can't do rocket jumps consistently).

You should be able to do at least 11s without any rocket jump or boost.

14 (edited by suiraclaw 2009-04-07 17:45:56)

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

Exactly, lots of room for improvement. (I should have made clear my failure to do rocket jumps several times in a row without fallacies was just an example)

PS: just did a 15.02 time without rocket jumps, still 4 minutes to go!

15 (edited by Franchan 2009-04-07 21:01:37)

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

Magnet wrote:

Teeworlds is all about movement. If you train your moves and speed, the rest will follow shortly (weapons, etc). You should practice on fastcapping ctf2 till you make it in 10s. That will require that you cut a lot of useless moves you make that make you slower smile.

As for weapons, all has been said already. Each weapon has its usage and you should switch using binds. Also, disable dynamic camera, active always show name plates, use binds and not nextweapon/prevweapons, look at better players and copy them. It will come if you play regularly.

Wait did you say
-Always show name plates?
-No dynamic camera?

I do the opposite and i think i play quite good.

Why are these important? And what does dynamic cam really do?

16

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

Why no dynamic camera? It just allows further viewing as far as i know? Isn't dynamic camera > static?

17

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

the dynamic camera is not everyone's cup of tea wink
i dont like it for example becouse i have a high mousesens and i am aiming around very fast and often if i'd do this with dynamic cam, i loose the summary of the battle and cant play anyway...
but some other players like the well known "KsZn *gV*" are using it to see other players before they do, and are able to shot on them earlyer...
you can or you rly cant use it tongue

Please use an english signature //heinrich5991

18

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

exactly- though i have the max moussense(like many i think),i hate dyncam.
it might be also usefull,though

The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them.

19

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

The Messenger wrote:

exactly- though i have the max moussense(like many i think),i hate dyncam.
it might be also usefull,though

there is no maximal mousesens, if you write "inp_mousesens XXXX" in the F1 console you can have a higher mousesens:
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6237/screenshot0001p.png

Please use an english signature //heinrich5991

20

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

The Messenger wrote:

exactly- though i have the max moussense(like many i think)

Interesting, my mouse sensitivity was extremely low. (I'll increase it a bit and test it a bit)

21 (edited by Franchan 2009-04-08 21:58:26)

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

hm. thats right.  i have really low mouse sensor...
but when i make it higher, i lose control lol

how about the nameplates?
i dont really see how that can improve your playing...

and anyways. there is a limit of skill level i can go. i use a mac mouse which means i set the hook to middle click and the rest is shoot so i can only shoot or hook at once.

and i hate windows mouses. because the ones i have around the hous need wires and im 14 so i wont bother buying a wireless one

22

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

On paper, dynamic camera should be an advantage, since you can see more of your clipping and thereby see a non-dyncam player slightly before (s)he see you, but many players feel like it's confusing. I've been using it since the beginning, and feel like it's an advantage for me, so the best idea is to try both on/off and see what you prefer.

Official Teeworlds map developer and community moderator
Administrator for the Teeworlds community Teesites

23

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

Chi11y wrote:

On paper, dynamic camera should be an advantage, since you can see more of your clipping and thereby see a non-dyncam player slightly before (s)he see you, but many players feel like it's confusing. I've been using it since the beginning, and feel like it's an advantage for me, so the best idea is to try both on/off and see what you prefer.

Sometimes is better dynamic sometimes normal smile i can't play races with dynamic camera but for all other it best... on bad thing is when one come from back you don't see him smile

24

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

Franchan123 wrote:

hm. thats right.  i have really low mouse sensor...
but when i make it higher, i lose control lol

how about the nameplates?
i dont really see how that can improve your playing...

and anyways. there is a limit of skill level i can go. i use a mac mouse which means i set the hook to middle click and the rest is shoot so i can only shoot or hook at once.

and i hate windows mouses. because the ones i have around the hous need wires and im 14 so i wont bother buying a wireless one

I switched to higher mousesens, and turned dyn cam off, and I adapted to it after a while (~2-3 hours of playing).
It is now okay to use it with wire mouse, it is sometimes said that wifi one adds some lag and with sensitivity at higher level you wont be limited by wires.

For the nameplates, it is useful to know what player are you fighting with, what can be advantage smile

Drowning dwarves lately

25

Re: [QUESTION] How to improve on weapon choice and movement?

Also, the nameplates show ppl with silly long names that are outside of your view ;D .

Official Teeworlds map developer and community moderator
Administrator for the Teeworlds community Teesites