26 Reply by Bee

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Re: Suggestion

Azon wrote:

It doesn't matter how many people want bots, or what the benefits of having training bots would be for the game. It's simply no good for the game. I'll try to make the reasons why even clearer then I made them before.

* It would take too much resources (time, effort, support) to put them in an official release.
* They'll never show competitive behavior against human players. They simply wouldn't be able to deal with the broad range of interactions any human counterpart could deploy.
* To compensate for the lack of intelligence they would need to have super-human aim which turns them into unfair and non-challenging machines.
* There's nothing to learn from bots, no matter how well programmed, you won't learn by playing against real players. Bots will never provide a challenge you can't find by playing against human players.

There are practical issues people need to realize.
* Developers don't ever want bots in their game and will never develop or support them in the official game.
* Moderators delete any topic that posts modified clients which offers any sort of automatic gameplay for very good reasons.
* Teeworlds is a multiplayer game.

To make it short, there have never been functional bots, there are no functional bots and there'll never be functional bots. Not in an official release, not as custom content. Bots will never train you at anything, or provide any kind of challenge you won't find online.

There's simply no point in arguing any further, because we could just as well discuss the possibility that next week pink unicorns come down from the sun and turn the moon into cheese. There simply won't ever be any sort of functional bots.

Fine....

There simply won't ever be any sort of functional bots. And how do you know this?

Give others the respect you wish to be respected with. In the mean time, enjoy the website!

27 Reply by Azon (edited by Azon 2009-03-22 14:53:51)

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Re: Suggestion

There are only two ways any sort of bots could ever come in the game. Either because the developers put them in an official release or because some communitymember modifies the official client. Now let's see where these two possible paths would lead:

Official released bots

* They would cost too many development resources. Developers would need to spend a lot of time to create them, even more time to perfect them to any kind of valuable game improvement and probably spend an eternity to fix the uncountable number of small bugs and tweaks the bots would require. They simply don't have that time, and even if they had, they would spend it on the hundreds of more pressing issues the game has.

* The developers don't want any sort of bots in Teeworlds. Not just because it would take too much of their time but also because Teeworlds has always been a multiplayer game and that's what the want it to stay.

Custom community release

* If the community would actually develop any sort of bot, it won't be allowed to be posted on the official forums because it would allow some people to have an advantage in their gameplay towards other, fair playing humans. After all, the code needed for a bot could easily be turned into an aimbot assisting human players in online play.

* There have been plenty of community discussions about the interest for bots in the community. It usually ends in a 50:50 stalemate between those that understand the practical issues and those that don't.

Practical issues

* No matter how much time either developers or the community put into the construction of a automatic tee who will move, hook and shoot by itself, it will never come even remotely close to the intelligent behavior that is shown by even a first time player. Bots that equal human aim, movement and skills would still be too easy to beat because they miss what you as a human do have, that's intelligence. Therefor their aim would have to exceed that of you as a human enemy and therefor would turn them in basic aim and click instant kill bots.

* It would be extremely hard, if not impossible to balance this lack of intelligence with a super-human kind of aiming, and always result in somewhat stupid or somewhat overpowered enemies.

* Due to this imbalance against you as a human player they'll never provide any sort of training, nor any sort of challenge. They will either be too easy and quickly make things boring, or have too good aim and be too overpowered to be fun.

So for these reasons I think it's safe to conclude:

* There will never be any sort of functional bots.

* If you want to have a singleplayer experience, please search for another game.

* This discussion about if, why or how bots would have to work is pointless.

28 Reply by Franchan

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Re: Suggestion

Azon wrote:

Custom community release

* After all, the code needed for a bot could easily be turned into an aimbot assisting human players in online play.

Only people who can program can turn a bot into an aimbot. And people who can program will find building an aimbot very easily. You just make it shoot at the nearest tee everytime you click.

I know people dont like aimbots [I dont either] but they are only really practucal in instagib. Anybody with an aimbot will probably spotted really quickly because they probably have an impossible score count. [unless they suck at spam clicking]

29 Reply by Azon (edited by Azon 2009-03-22 15:42:29)

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Re: Suggestion

Seems like one more good reason why it is a dangerous thing to develop this project.

30 Reply by Bee

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Re: Suggestion

Kay kay, thanks for explaining it.

Give others the respect you wish to be respected with. In the mean time, enjoy the website!