Teewars physics and/or netcode (Page 1 of 2)

Don't forget, gameversion is 0.3.3, means not everything works perfectly. Be patient until everything you don't like is fixed, or just don't play it.

I've pasted this from an other thread where we discussed why we have chosen not to have inherited velocity.

The issue with the bullets spawning behind you have to do with prediction and isn't something that just can be fixed. It's more obvious in 2D then in 3D. Prediction is basically "lying" to the player on whats going on and hope that you get away with it. Teewars right now only predicts local player movement, because it's hard to move around with lag. The projectiles aren't predicted because it would cause a lot of lying about bullets positions; you would see a lot of bullets going though players etc. I have some improvements for the fire delay in 0.4.0 but thats about it.

This thread talks about the inheirited velocity:
http://www.teewars.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=15

Let me elaborate my view:

Comparing Q3 and Teewars is completely out of place. You say Q3 is a fast game. But that is wrong. Q3 CAN be a fast game but Q3 is sluggish as hell and it takes quite some effort for it to become fast. You might want to show me "quick velocity changes" in Q3 sir.
Did you know air rockets are easiest done in Q3? Air rockets in UT are a real mastery. Why? Q3 has the "worst" air control ever which means once you're in air you basically can't move really so your path of movement is quite predictable. In Teewars the air control is probably better than on the floor thanks to the hook so there's a big big difference.

I did a bit of trickjumping in Q3 and once you gain speed you hardly can do curves let alone turning around with the same speed. Q3's physics are made to be sluggish. If you ever compared the UT series to Q3, Q3 feels like playing underwater, being retarded. UT's movement isn't as beatiful as Quake's though but that's another discussion.
If you did trickjumping you would know it's not that easy to become faster than your rocket. You have to be a quite good strafe jumper to actually become faster than your rocket, in Teewars ANY movement other than walking makes you faster than the completely ridiculously slow grenades. I smell imbalance. And everything I said is true for the shotgun as well.

To sum it up: In ANY other game it is rather hard to get behind your projectile may it be a rocket, a flak shell, a bio rifle blob, whatever. In Teewars any movement other than plain walking makes you get behind your projectiles. Add some unbelievable fast movement to the game and it basically sucks. You have the fastest movement (alongside War§ow) I know along with the slowest projectiles. This just doesn't mix. I could stfu and adapt but it just doesn't make sense to me and I somehow feel attracted to little buggers with guns.

I like the game, the idea, the graphics, I just hate the gameplay as it is right now. Please don't feel offended.

Edit: Too dumb to write proper sentences.

It's easier not to get offended if you stick to the constructive feedback rather than tossing words like "retarded," "sucks" and "hate the gameplay" around, but that's beside the point. I personally don't take offense since I'm well aware no game can please anyone, especially not one that's far from finished.

Anyway, it might just be that we haven't reached a comfortable balance of speeds yet. I should mention, though, that you're preaching to the choir a bit. As we've often stated in and outside of these forums, Teewars isn't Q3, Warsow, Soldat or Worms. It's inspired by some of those games (and others) but we don't take our design cues from them beyond what is prudent in each particular aspect.

I would happily experiment with the parameters of the Teewars player / weapon physics, we just haven't seen much reason to do anything drastic this early on in the life cycle of the game -- especially where speed and maneuverability are concerned, due to the symbiotic nature of gameplay and map design. Until we've reached a more mature level of comfort with map design, we're reluctant to toss out what a majority of players seem to feel comfortable with.

Having said all that, your input is appreciated, and we'll gladly take it into account if and when we re-visit the player / weapon physics.

I have to admit I don't know what different it would feel if velocity would add up as I assumed Q3 and co. have this feature. So yes, this might be a reason for NOT making velocities add up. Apart from that, no.

You just can't compare Teewars and Q3 because of the worlds between the movement and worlds between projectile velocities. Once again: In Q3 it is HARD to become faster than a rocket. In Q3 you have a WAY slower average movement. In Q3 it is hard to change direction once you're fast.
Teewars movement is so much different and faster. And the projectiles are slower.
Moving forward swiftly basically disables properly using the grenade launcher as it most likely will hit yourself.

I do hate the gameplay and it sucks as well. I might want to express myself a little less aroused, I'll take that into account. Read the sentence with 'retarded' again as it wasn't used to insult anything at all.

Sure it isn't but don't try to enforce difference with declaring this absolutely wrong correlation of velocities as Teewars' own style. It is just rubbish. There must be a reason Q3, War§ow, Soldat and Worms were successful. You have the unique graphics. The style bonus. Don't ruin it with weird physics just so you can say "we're different!".

You can try and turn off the prediction by setting cl_predict=0 .. It's really really horrible

Oh, but I wasn't. I'm merely saying that since we're essentially trying to merge sidescrollers with FPS games, it's not a given which aspect of the game should be dictated by any given game or style. We're taking it slow because it's tricky business, not that we're touting the "weird is good" card, which I personally detest.

Would be great.

I'm well aware of the ever-changing-physics-ruins-the-game problem.

I agree that setting maximum achievable speed isn't a good idea. Things shouldn't be done that way - high speeds should be hard to achieve, but achievable. How about (for example) halving all the speed above 1000 ? So if you should have 1250 ups, you would have only 1125 ups in real.
And - when we are at the speed subject, how about implementing (optional) speedometer on screen (like in Warsow)? Would be nice, especially for races

Take a look at my posts with ideas:
Hammer+charge * Headshots * Yet Another Energy Gun * Map scrolling

Logaritmic speed increase (evenly getting harder and harder but no real limit)?

I agree with matricks that making running faster is a good idea.