[IDEA] Full automatic / Semi-automatic option

The machine gun was obvious an example to explain one implementation of my idea. All I ask for is a way to tune an action (= anything you can do by pressing a button) to be either full-automatic (keeping button pressed continues action) or semi-automatic (one press, one action).

Maybe you don't want to play on a customized server. That's fine. But other peoples do. Me and my friends for example find great joy to interrupt our normal games with some crazy fun by modifying our server into anything. This is just one of the ideas we had. All I asked therefor is:

a) if it's possible.
b) how it's possible.
c) clearly NOT what your opinion is about the modifying of weapons or the need for such options.

That's great, do you have any idea how this is done?
Could such options also be implemented for actions like jump?

Although you've located a very hot issue here I think that there's at the same time a problem. I agree that everyone that plays a mod can't play the standard game at the same time. If this will kill the original concept I don't know. What I do know is that it won't kill Teeworlds as a whole, instead keep it alive way longer then it would be when it's was only regular gameplay.

Even with our best efforts we will not be able to "create" more regular players, or move mod-players into regular gameplay. It's the player himself that decides what he plays. If he likes a mod more then standard gameplay, he'll play the mod. However at the same time he'll at least play Teeworlds, when otherwise he wouldn't have played it at all.

I don't see how map downloading and instagib disrupt the game, or new options will disrupt it even more. As far as I know there's no big plan that needs to develop within a limited timeframe. Teeworlds is an open-source game that's very accessible to modifications. The core idea since day one has been to allow as much community-input as possible. I see the current flood of run maps, instagib servers and modified objects only as this core idea becoming reality, which is good. It might happen a bit overwhelming, I fully agree on that, but the event itself is good.

Although I can't speak for the developers, but in my opinion regular gameplay can only offer as much as a limited example of the possibilities of the game. People will try it, and either enjoy or dislike it. If they don't like regular gameplay, they'll modify it to their own tastes. Apparently for some this is instagib, for some this are run maps, and for some the option to switch between semi-automatic and full-automatic. Sure this leaves the provided base somewhat deserted, but at the same time it also provides a long term replay value for the game.

You say mods kill regular gameplay, I think Teeworlds would be closer to dead if it wasn't for the mods. Why? Because it makes the game attractive to a much larger audience.

While we are on the subject of mods. 0.5.0 will bring support for mods to have their own gametype so you can filter them in the server browser. The default settings for Teeworlds will be to filter out those servers and only show vanilla servers. This will make it easier for new users to identify what Teeworlds is and whats a mod of the game. In the future, mods will be written in a scripting language (Lua) so there is no need to recompile the game to run a mod.

For every option you add, you increase the risk of ruining the design -- you end up in "option hell" where the game simply has no identity. I've noticed that whenever there's disagreement on whether or not a feature should be in the game, there's only a matter of time before someone says "just make an option for it."

In a majority of cases, that's simply bad design. The feature is either good enough that most people would like it on, or it shouldn't be there at all. There are exceptions, of course, but "many options" does not equal "a good game." In most cases, the opposite is true (albeit equally oversimplified).

Whether a weapon has autofire is meant to be part of its design, not "according to taste."

I very much hope this is the problem, and 0.5.0 will indeed bring the right solution.

I think the main problem you're summarizing about regular gameplay is the following. Yes indeed regular gameplay takes skills to an entirely new level, and in some ways indeed higher then the skills required for certain mods. But because there is such high level of skill involved, this discourages new players to practice it, and turns them to the modified games. The main problem therefor lays with with the steep difficulty curve of regular gameplay. The only real solution (which I think should never be implemented) would be some sort of ranking system which only makes you face equal opponents. This way new players can develop their own skills against equally matched opponents, while at the same time won't get discouraged when high-end skilled players repeatedly conquer them. But as I said, this is no solution for Teeworlds.

I think the emphasis of Teeworlds never involved the principle of clans, and if they lose interest in the game because there is no new blood to spill this will only mean new players will find it easier to access regular gameplay.

I think you are doing a very good thing by increasing accessibility to your server. It's a great start and if more servers like that arise it could certainly make a difference. Personally I don't think it's map downloading what killed good maps, it's the fact that there's we are from a generation of players which currently dominates above new players on professional maps, purely because we had the time to develop ourselves. The moment I start liking a map is the moment I actually manage to get a high score on it. Until that moment it's no fun and I'm deploying lot's of self-control to stay practicing while it's a small step to go some funny mod.

CTF2 is definitely one of the best maps every created, but while it's fun for a while it's also a lot of fun to become creative with the map editor and play in an environment which you created yourself. I think many new players are attracted by the fact they can create some kind of a map (regardless of quality) within an hour and play it with friends. Same goes for instagib, it can be much more fun to actually conquer there then to get conquered in regular gameplay. It's not 100% to blame on the mods, but for a large part on the difficulty curve of regular gameplay.

I know instagib is a trivial matter, but don't you think people choose to play any mod because that is what makes them enjoy the game the most? Who are we to say how people should enjoy their game, especially because it's open source. People are free to do whatever they want, as long as it is in terms with the rules they accepted when participating. People are allowed to disable all other weapons except laser, increase it's damage and remove all hearts, which creates instagib. People like it that way, unfortunately at the severe cost of regular gameplay.

I think decreasing accessibility is a direct offense against the very core idea of Teeworlds. Although this would be a harsh but effective solution, all you would do is reduce the interest in Teeworlds as a whole. Players that are forced to leave their mods are definitely not going to play regular games.

If people enjoy Teeworlds that much without mods, why don't they play regular games? Without mods Teeworlds would only be for those that like 2D shooters in the shape of DM, TDM and CTF. If you wouldn't like those games you wouldn't play it. But now you have the ability to modify many things, so if you simply like to race the fastest time you will also enjoy the game.

Although it would be nice to have certain professional servers, and some beginner servers there would be no way to prevent these from mixing. Some professionals (bad guys as they are) enjoy taking out on beginners, and some beginners would like to practice against professionals. It would require extensive monitoring of the skills of a player (like giving everyone a rank). As said before I don't like this solution because it would only thrive the old and new generation further away from each other.

Let me conclude by asking you that if you could change one thing to fix this issue, what would you like to see changed? What do you think will make a majority of the entire playerbase (modplayers) move towards regular gameplay, by that giving up the one thing they apparently enjoy about Teeworlds?

It was a rhetoric question which I tried to answer myself in the following text, but never mind.

This seems like a decent solution to me, but how are we going to guarantee people will meet beginners in beginner servers? Is there some statistic involved which monitors which servers you are allowed to join? Or can professionals still join beginner servers for a massive mayhem?

At the surface I would agree with such harsh but just solution. But unless people actually would start playing regular games such changes would drastically cut the community in two, one backing up normal gameplay, others backing up modified servers. In the ideal situation people would join together once again around the few DM maps there were in 0.2.0, but in reality I fear people will simply develop their own masterserver within a day and basically form their own community.

So what would be mine solution you ask? (yes you didn't ask, but rethoric question )
Firstly wait out 0.5.0, see if the new elements change anything about current situation. Secondly try to create a bridge between mods and regular gameplay. In the case of instagib, create a instagib server which does not have unlimited ammo, or does not maximum damage. This way people will get used to collecting ammo or aiming multiple times at the same target. If people like this way of gameplay you'll have a good way to introduce people to regular gameplay. Combined with beginnerservers like you host yourself people can get a decent start this could bring salvation to our burden.

Well I must say it would be very interesting to see what the community does without modifications like instagib. I'm pretty certain 0.5.0 will break most existing mods so we'll see what happens when people can't find any instagib server on the air anymore. I hope you're right and this revitalizes regular gameplay.

For the time being I can't really argue much more with your vision, it's agreeable and solid enough until the situation changes. When new ideas pop up I'll be the first to spew them forth. This will probably be when the after-0.5.0 situation has crystallized into a concrete situation which will provide new insights in community capabilities and behavior.

People would have to find a link for the client first, and afaik modded clients aren't tolerated on these forums .

I know that, but as you can see, I said "if". What I am saying is that people will play what they want to play, even if things get in the way!

I am talking about players. If you haven't noticed, most servers are insta gib ctf servers, packed full with players.