[MAP] Tweaked by Dreamy - DM (Page 3 of 3)

I spent hours of dedicated work on my improving too. What is it that makes the original author´s work deserve more respect than mine?

Waiting for 2 days may not be the end of the world, but it would pretty much kill this little project in it´s womb. I did this on inspiration, if I had waited two days the inspiration would have worn off.

"People may do as they please" is NOT an egocentric attitude. If what they do is controlled by real, written, generally agreed upon rules, then that is the right attitude and you can leave.

a) it *is* true, and it is not irrelevant.
Law bases havely on will declarations, and not answering may never treated as a will decleration. Like, "I send you this offer to buy my car for 1.000.000$, if you don't respond in 4 weeks I assume you are okay to buy this car..."

Did you answer my questions after all?

I find it funny, that you circumvent the accussing of using flaming techniques by "pulling rank" by again "pulling rank" (ah that must be 12 year old). Don't you get the paradox?

I just read a book by schopenhauer, in case you don't know a famous philosoph, "the art to be right after all" and he writes in a funny way about tricks people use to be perceived right altough they are wrong. Altough the language is very different and a lot more ´philosophical´ many points is suprisingly identical to the ´way of flaming´ from the aboth link.

Also what makes you think *you* have to teach us unwritten that have not been taught to you? Which is also a funny paradox, you say the rule is unwritten, and nobody told you about it. Maybe its just all in your head?

You stick by your rule, but the reason why you switch every 2nd post, everytime I show you how the given reason is wrong, you just come up with another. Why are you doing this all?

BTW: Many opensource communities thrive heavily where you can edit work without asking and most are bigger than any 'map editing community'. Also as side note the teeworlds license explicitly allows me to make and publicise modifications without asking the devs first. Does this now harm the teeworlds community by your logic?

(originally my map^^)

@Marik16,
This discussion is about a whole lot more than just one map.

@Dreamy,
Why should original authors have absolute control over their work?
Because it's theirs!?!? But as Catpaw will tell you, once you place it in the public area are relinguish ownership.

What good comes out of it?
As far as the map is concerned, nothing good and nothing bad comes from it. As far as the author is concerned, a warm fuzzy feeling that your peeps care!

@Roanoke,
I agree mostly with what you have said.

@catpaw,
You have your view based on opensource (so you believe) and I have my view based on my experiences with other mapping communities. You believe you know whats best for everyone, I believe I've experienced a healthy, flourishing communities that would be good here.

We have two completely different views - I'm sure the only thing we can agree on is that we do not agree.

"Did you answer my questions after all?"
I see there was a second question that I didn't answer - I will now.
Question: how long have you been into opensource development, or were just editing some files of some propertery games?
Answer: I have never been involved with code development for any opensource development. I have created maps for several free software groups, the code I never touched, only the maps. Note, I work as a programmer, so when I get home from work, I don't feel like doing more programming, mapping is another story

Are you a programmer? (I hope this is not another question in which you feel threatened and need to cry: flammer, see "pulling rank").

Wikipedia (open source):
The principles and practices are commonly applied to the development of source code for software that is made available for public collaboration, and it is usually released as open-source software.

collaboration - To work together, especially in a joint intellectual effort.

@toni, isn't it nice when your work is noticed!

l8r all, not sure if I'll have the time to chat with you over the weekend and next week I'm away on holidays... bye

The problem about what we argue is what to do with the work of authors who say nothing when 'releasing' their software. If the person posts it with "here is the my map, please do not edit it unless you asked me" then the situation is clear. If he posts it as "here is my new map, I put it under the creative commons license" then its clear also. Ever asked youself why its called *creative* commons? As I showed you, if you stick with the law, unless the author says anything, you may only download it as implicit decleration by putting up a link, but not even run it on your server, without additional permission. So also you extend the uses by thinking what is sensefull instead of what is stricly permitted by laws of ownership. Its a dilemma, because most authors do not care, and we ask here what we want to treat as "default value" if left empty.

How about the warm fuzzy feeling, that somebody pays even attention to your work. Its an honor if someone picks it up, not stealing if he tells where he got it from.

I have seen also opensource coding *AND* content development communities flourishing that were open to edit. Altough they sticked to an open license, and asked all contributions to set their content also under this license. BTW: I have developed maps for xpilots. When you look it up, you can see how old it is, maybe you were still pissing in your pants when I was actively busy with xpilots already.

And does this keep you from posting in every thread where someone made an improvemnt of a map

Note with 2 question marks!?!?! as if it wouldn't be tonis part to complain first place and never ever yours. And you keep nagging about it, even when toni said its okay for him.

Maybe you should try to get the spirit.

You still seem not to be able to argue about the issue, instead you just are pulling all kind of ranks and are still continuing it propably due to familiarization even when showed what its about. If you just argue, "I'm better than you, because of this and that" instead of working with real arguments on the issue, you are a lousy thinker or discusser. That is a flaming technique the "12 year old" described, but also the 50 year old Schopenhauer

As general tip, get this "im better than you, (or this text writer), because of this or that" think out of your mind, what seems to guide your whole thinking.

BWT: Well I guess the mods I did were just random keyboard hitting then. Search the forums, you'll find two. And no I did not ask Matrix before if its okay for him, that I mod teeworlds, nor was I required to since of the teeworlds license.

You keep pressing the issue, and you totally fail to see that *all* opensource projects allow you to edit the code *without* asking the authors before. I mean look at projects like linux that thrive under this conditions, where you suggest it should fail. Even teeworlds itself is opensource, yet you fail to see the contradiction.

Well, I'm already really tired about this discussion. Please just stop nagging about this once and for all, and let the teeworlds community evolve. All *THIS* thread (and future about the same issue) is certainly driving people away and harming any efforts.

Also you have not answered my question, if this rule is unwritten, and you say nobody told you about it, how can you be certain its not just all in your head?

Next time at least open a new thread instead of hijacking poor dreamies one. Does anybody talk about his map? No

Exactly, greed is not getting us anywhere.

I guesss my question is directed at the whole concept of owning ideas then. It only seems like a not so productive powerstructure to me. A powerstructure that does more harm than good, and thus should rather be fought than respected.

As far as the map is concerned, I am certain that some bad does come out of it, and I have already explained why. Creativity is hampered when one can´t act on inspiration, and the delay of having to ask can harm inspiration severely.

So I guess it is progress vs fuzzy feeling then.

Only, I (or, rather, anyone wanting to modify) get a fuzzy feeling if allowed to do this. So my way there would be both progress and fuzzy feeling, just distributed a little differently.

You misjudge me. I never said that I think my needs are more important than other people´s needs. I simply recognize that my needs are not any less important either.

If you want to call that egocentric, fine. But then you claim that dince I am egocentric I can´t genuinely care for the good of the community. That is just plain wrong. There is no contradiction between caring for oneself and caring for the community. Self-sacrifice is not the only path to helping the community, and I´d guess that it´s not the most effective one either.

So matricks and teetow decide? Ok, let's bother them.