The Great Vanilla Revival Initiative: Discussion (Page 3 of 5)

Ladder requires account, requires big player base, etc. It's not that the devs don't want, it's just that we reasonably can't do that.

The anti-bot fight has been talked about for pages and pages, definitely won't happen, and not because devs are lazy incompetent guys.

Sure the development is slow but you can't expect real changes like in other games - just features around the game.

Yo,
Sorry for pushing this "old" thread but I want to write a little experience report.

After the Great Vanilla Revival Post I wanted to help Vanilla and applied on rinju. So, I learned very much about the Vanilla scene.
Now here are my statements

lead-in
Because I was apply of rinju it wasn't very hard to get a good lead-in. Within ~2 week I learned the most important things about vanilla and the players of vanilla. But I am very sure that it would be very hard if I weren't a apply of rinju. the biggest problem would be, because the players are very critical with new players and are very conservative. so it's not so easy to find any real funwar apart from a dm 1on1 oder ctf5 public war, if you aren't an apply

Community
the community in rinju was very nice. But in my opinion the community in the whole vanilla scene was a little bit splitted. there are many nice players who are gentle and who want to learn you some new skills ( Jambi, Yellow, bombi ) but many other players who are insulting you ( don't wanna give any names ). It's also a large characteristic of vanilla-players to be very ... snooty. ( Maybe that's why there are always less new players for vanilla? ) I don't know why, but nearly every player thinks he is on a higher level, because he is one of the "fantastic vanilla mod" and "doesn't play noobmods like instagib!". to all vanillaplayers who still think this: you are not a better tee only because you play vanilla.

Clans
It's very sad that in the vanilla scene there are only 4-6 active clans which are in a position to play clanwars. ( although it was a luxury for me as a insta-player ( there is everything inactive ) but in my opinion 4-6 clans are still too less ). But in all, the most clans are pretty serious and that's very important for me.

=> conclusion
vanilla is the most varied and most extensive gametype of teeworlds with the oldest players. In my opinion it needs  a change that vanilla doesn't go down. ( maybe more clans, a less conservative thinking of the players or any new minor details to let the community make closer )
I hope that the devs will add features for vanilla in the 0.7 version, that would also be very advantageous.
But in my opinion the best reason to give vanilla an upswing would be that: There are too much other mods which are played of players who could be really talented for playing vanilla. and also too much servers. So the best method would be, that the Develops and Teeoworlds Admins must give their "Ok" for every new mod which should be published of private modders and the server volume can be limited by the developers/admins.
So there wouldn't be so much unnecessary empty servers, mods and maps.

best wishes,
rcn

pls use google translate...

yeah, but do you think it's the sense of a game called "2D-SHOOTER" that there are ~7-10 block servers with the blmaps each including about 16 players, who would all be able to play mods which are go down gradually? ( like vanilla, race, ... ) I don't think that it's the sense of teeworlds. You're right, that people maybe prefer other mods than vanilla. But I just think too much mods and servers ruin the real sense of the game.

dude, be not condescending. if you can't be serious go out of this thread please. it's not my job to satisfy you, so create your mod on your own or be quiet. I only want to help teeworlds with my personal opinion which i made through my experience. the real sense of teeworlds may not expire and so I think it's never wrong to help with new ideas. maybe the develops agree with it, dunno.
and we need not to delude ourselves: teeworlds made a big evolution since 0.5.1 ( that's the version I began to play ). for some players a positive evolution, but I think for more players a negative evolution.

Yes, I agree you. I love real DDRace-Maps and Mods, but that wasn't my concern. My concern wasn't that DDRace ruins the sense of Teeworlds. My concern was that the blmaps, where you only run around a little bit and hook others in the freeze without any sense and finish, are the badest thing which ever happened to teeworlds. That is just not the gameplay what I connect with a 2D-Shooter. Yes, you said that I can call it what I want but in my eyes it's a 2D shooter. And in a 2D-Shooter I don't want to see the most servers where I come in, where I get insulted of any kids and who block me without any reason. That's definetly not the gameplay which I connect with a game called "Teeworlds - Jumping the Gun!". My concern was that the 3642345825 servers ( without guarantee ) which are empty make it more difficult to find real good servers for beginners. that destroys the whole community. it would be enough if there is a tenth of the current server volume. My concern was that the blockmaps which are on every third server are a step in the completely wrong way. the same with city for example.

It's not about if I like it or not. It's about if teeworlds will die out anytime through that or not. I will not guarantee it but if that is going on without any changes I think Vanilla will die. Instagib is already extinct. I can say that from my own experience. In Insta there is no serious active clan anymore.

And about the rest:

see my text above.

I never wrote that I hate block maps. So, pls don't impute me things I never said.
I have a reason that blockmaps are counterproductive for the whole teeworlds scene and racemaps ( why the hell racemaps now? mh, idc ) are. please read my text which i wrote.

please.read.my.texts. I can't discuss with you seriously if you don't read my texts.

Definitely not! More Players = More Servers, Less Players = Less Servers. What we want is More Players but Less Servers. So we need measures from the outside to regulate the server volume.

I never said that.
Sure, it can make fun. But it destroys the sense of real teeworlds imo. And the real teeworlds game is just vanilla and not any blocking mod which can play everybody. I wrote all I wanted to say and don't want to write it again now.

to your last part of you post I don't want to comment. But one question HeroiAmarelo: If in 2 years, there are 5 ctf servers, 2 race servers, 5 ddrace servers with ddrace maps, 2 instagib servers, 2 openfng servers and hmmmm 300 ddrace servers with blmaps and other blockmaps without any sensefull gameplay. do you think then "Yeah! that is the teeworlds I like! the community formed it!! cool!" or will you say "Hm... now there is no more clanwar, no more Team Death Matches, now more Ctf... that's a really pitty. I think teeworlds did go really down. I should stop it maybe.. I am too old for that now." What will you say? ... And that's the point because I think it's so important to save Vanilla and the "real gametypes" now and not after a few years when the vanilla etc are a "unsafeable".

High skilled players have been actig like parasites, and now they finally killed the host!
Ctf5, The black sheep in vanilla. the map that contains nothing but unskilled noobs, idiots and retards....even homosexuals some say! - Is now more or less what keeps vanilla alive!
What began as clanwars and funwars became so competative that it got unpleasant! The fight is more intense for those who spectates! Instead of applauding achievements, people tend to tear eachother down to maintain their own position in the vanillascene!

How can vanilla rise again? ATM, it cant! High skilled players are just sitting there, waiting for their next victim.

Instead of teaching new players how to become better, they tell them "to get back to ctf5, where all the other noobs are" 

And yet we/you/he complains about vanilla dying! hypocrites!

We know you are good, we know you have been playing TW for while. now teach me to become a comptetator, instead of a victim of your arrogance!

Right now, i wanna advise new players to come and play ctf5. its relaxing, you meet different kind of people. and last but not at least having fun!

Ok, lets ignore the obvious problem then.
Continue discussing servers, coding, unicorns and rainbows. Its not gonna help tho!
The problem Cant be fixed. Just gotta hope it changes over time!

Me and some other vanilla players created a Clan ingame with one goal; too get new players interested!
New players like the idea of playing in a team! They wanna feel that affinity!
We need some sort of a recruit-system where they learn the basic! We have started such a team, but have not been able to make a homepage or anything! its all in-game ATM!

Well, i've said what i wanted to say! feel free too discuss whatever you discussed again!

Sadly I can't see any changes being made.
You still have to wait over 30 minutes for a match on ctf2 or ctf3, if you can take part at all.

Lets define that!

Crying:
1. To sob or shed tears because of grief, sorrow, or pain; weep.
2. To call loudly; shout.
3. To utter a characteristic sound or call. Used of an animal.
4. To demand or require immediate action or remedy

Have not shed any tears so far, but your post wich contained denial and the least constructive feedback soo far was actually a little painful to read!

Not possible to call ot loudly here!

Definitly not possible to utter any kind of animalsounds.

Require immediate action....hmm, i guess you were right. we are crying. thats the point of the thread!

But you are right, vanilla is not dead. its in a vegetative state. And ctf5 is the plug!

(Be cautious, some irony was used in this post.)

The vanilla scene is dying because pro players are arrogant? I'm not buying that. True, there are arrogant pro players. But that's not the only kind of bad guys out there.

Let me say one thing : there are bad guys everywhere. Arrogant pros, insulting noobs, funvoters, bot callers and so on. They have all kinds of level. Though, people will only stop playing with pros. Why is that? Because when you meet a noob mean guy, you still can kill him easily.

You just can't make general rules that easily. You saw two arrogant pros in a row, so 100% of the pro players are arrogant ?... Yeah, you must be wondering why you got everything wrong at your last math test.

(I guess if three people said i'm a bot, then I must be a bot. Big news I guess, I thought I was human.)

In the end, you can't continue to live everyday by just fleeing. You got to school? I'm sure you met bad guys there. You have or will get a job in the future. You'll meet dickheads there too. So what? Did you change school each time something got wrong? Will you change jobs every month?

In the end, if you want to play high level, you can. That is, if you really want, as in every mods. I probably will never become a DDR pro, because I won't try too hard. Finishing a map is enough for me, no need to make it faster than everyone: I'm not at this level and don't want to.

I was ctf5 random guy, one day someone proposed me to join. He was not the first one, but that day, I decided to be curious. I lost 10-0, 10-1 or something like that. He was not one of the most skilled pro. I knew I was not that strong but it was good to see how far I was... So I decided to get better, and I did. Of course I met some useless guys on the way, and I still didn't stop because of them, as simple as that.

I still play ctf5, and I dare to say nobody is saying I'm arrogant. I'm trying my best to balance and help the players. When the game gets interesting, I call for help, I give advice, I say what position I'm in.

Would everyone be more curious and open-minded, and less lazy, mods (vanilla included) wouldn't just die. Sometimes you want a race, sometimes you want a ctf, sometimes you just don't want to play. There is no need to put the mods in competition.

And I saw someone saying "ddr is great because it's co-op". Well, I thought ctf was, too. Weird, I guess I didn't understand my own game then.

wow binx so some pro invited you, that made you interested in becoming pro. way to prove your point!

Is this really a 2014 thread? How long is that thematic already going on? Every player that find and downloads teeworlds first time in his live starts with a teeworlds client that hides all mods by default. Is there anybody out there that playes a TW-mod and never ever played vanilla? You could post as many scary screenshots from server-lists as you want but pretty almost everybody that is playing some mod now already played vanilla in the past. It's not the fault of the mods! Everybody that is playing mods could switch the server and join some vanilla. Vanilla gameplay is fun for a while but it's a very repetitive gameplay. After playing hundrets of hours CTF5 again and again and again you might search for something different ... and it's not CTF2. Even other games have repetive gameplay but they keep motiviation by causing users with some target to reach something to level up some tiers in whatever. Playing DDrace is a complete different beast that catched me for years. It's one of the rare games out where you are pleased regarding other players - so even if it's often the same (like pulling and pushing others through freeze) it actually lives from a social aspect which isn't there in vanilla gameplay. Compare that with other games like WoT where everybody is calling the other teammate an idiot hundret times. Why are still hundret-thousands are playing such a frustrating game again and again? Because there is some target to reach (and maybe some rumors regarding a game-maker that is making everybody somewhat average with a winrate that's for all just a bit below or above 50%). If you like more vanilla players then remove mods from the enemy list and put it to your friendslist and think how you could make vanilla better and keep players in that game so they come back from itself. Just a serious whishlist is too weak.