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Topic: Regarding the double jump

I've read a bit and heard that people are very skeptical about this. I will rant about my thoughts about it, how we came to the conclusion and some other issues surrounding it. This is very long but a jolly good read and insight into the design of Teewars.

Teewars has been a R&D project for quite a few years. This year we released the very first version of it. The second major update came and a lot was changed. The third major installment is on it's way and brings a lot of new things and changes some old stuff.

The Vision
Me and Teetow has a pretty good vision of what Teewars should be, a vision that the community can't see. One great example of this are the new skins. People feel that they don't fit Teewars, but it does. It doesn't fit their perception of what Teewars is, but it's something that we always wanted to have in Teewars and something that has always been in our vision of Teewars.

The Experiments
In the really really really early days of Teewars we did a lot of experimenting (like 4-5 years ago). The first version didn't have the hook. It had a jet-pack instead. We later on tried a lot of things with having a hook instead. The hook was way more fun. In an other version we tried leaving the hook out of the game for awhile and experimented with double-jump and wall jumps to move around. It was a bit hard to move around using only this. When writing the base the new version, the version that became 0.1.0, we considered everything again.

The Familiar
Quake 1 was a really good multi-player game, Quake 3 as well. Unreal Tournament is sweet, ut2003/2004 as well. But within there lies the problem. People tend to like things that are familiar to them. This is something that can cause a lot of problems when you do a game iterative. People get used to how it feels and thinks that it should be that way. They then get get scared of new stuff that forces them to change their now very well known patterns. I don't say that every new change is a good one but even good changes will meet this resistance.

The Teewars Design Plan
The design for Teewars and it's code follows a very very strict code. It's best summed up as KISS or Occam's Razor.
1. Teewars should be fun!
2. Teewars should contain no excess and be kept to the bare minimum, only exception is rule 1.
3. Teewars should be deterministic and predictable. No random variables, no exceptions.
4. Teewars should be about order, not chaos.
5. Teewars should be very informative on what's happening.
Following these rules we believe that you can create a very fun and skill-based game.

The Motivation and Reasons
Motivating wall-jumps is hard. There is a wall, use the hook, escape. If you have double jump, wall-jump becomes an excess. Motivation for having double jump in Teewars are much easier and have very good reasons. One things that many people have complained about that its so much hooking all the time, we agree to some part. Another is that it makes you able to maneuver better in the air and recover from failed jumps.
But there is two big reasons for adding it. First of all, it feels very very natural. Took about 5-10 minutes of playing around to get used to it and all the cool maneuvers you can do with it. A lot of other great 2D games has this. The second reason is CTF. When you are chased with the flag, you want to shoot behind you but then you loose the ability to use the hook to get around. Double jump makes it, I wouldn't say possible but more possible to move around on a map getting chased.

Conclusion
So, in 0.3.0 a lot is going to change. Me and Teetow argued about wall-jumps and double jumps for about 1.5 month before settling on having double jumps and not wall-jumps. Every aspect has been argued 5 times and considered about 10 times before I wrote the final code for it. Next version might feel a bit alien in the beginning, because of air jump, prediction and minor physics tweaks, but in the end I think we have done the right choices to make Teewars a really great game.

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Re: Regarding the double jump

Hope you're right, there's also plenty of time to reconsider your choices if needed.

Now get to work so we can test it out in the public soon wink

Slayer

It's hammering time!

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Re: Regarding the double jump

Point is, the Teewars you see today is only part of the Teewars we see on the drawing board. We're asking for your feedback and ideas, but also for your patience and for you to keep an open mind.

There's a reason the release numbers are kept below 1.0 smile

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Re: Regarding the double jump

Thank you matricks for breifly describing the vision of teewars in reply to my concerns. Very reassuring. wink
Cheers,
Ergo

The proxy of death / noWai!

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Re: Regarding the double jump

thanks for giving a glimpse behind the scenes smile
I'm sure you know best what might destroy the teewars-feeling and what doesn't so I am confident that teewars will only get better

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Re: Regarding the double jump

Only negative thing I see with this is that I´ll have too redesign my map too fit the new jumping distances smile.

Good thinking, as always.

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Re: Regarding the double jump

I agree with above, nice to hear why you do the changings/(addings? tongue ) that you do smile

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Re: Regarding the double jump

Amen. :]

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Re: Regarding the double jump

Yepp. Newbies got to have a chance too. lol
I'm convinced.

...more words of wisdom:

teetow wrote:

Well... You will always have new, eager players who are trying to pick up on the mechanics and improve their skill. If a game is too noob-unfriendly, the playerbase will quickly dwindle into a dark, tiny clusterfuck of competing egos smile

Repeating line at the top right corner of your screen:
RallyHagge!  ( ••)   ?????  ( ><) Your name

10 (edited by V34 2007-12-17 19:09:51)

Re: Regarding the double jump

It's going to be fun with the double jump, gives players a whole new way to dodge bullets.

I must say I have the deepest respect for your game, and design, and sound, and stable programming.

11 (edited by void 2007-12-13 11:29:31)

Re: Regarding the double jump

http://stalverk80.se/stable.jpg

Languages shapes the way we think, or don't.

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Re: Regarding the double jump

void: haha, made me laugh out loud smile

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Re: Regarding the double jump

What booth is yours?

Used to be very active waay back

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Re: Regarding the double jump

Haha, nice one.

Teewars has been a R&D project

What does this exactly mean?

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Re: Regarding the double jump

V34 wrote:

Haha, nice one.

Teewars has been a R&D project

What does this exactly mean?

R&D = Research and Development

I've written about 4-5 completely different versions of Teewars, sharing no code what so every, trying out different things.

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Re: Regarding the double jump

Oh thanks. I think this might be one of the secret to a good game.
I kind of know it from Web-Developing.

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Re: Regarding the double jump

red com wrote:

void: haha, made me laugh out loud smile

Hahahaha! Mee too! lol

Repeating line at the top right corner of your screen:
RallyHagge!  ( ••)   ?????  ( ><) Your name

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Re: Regarding the double jump

V34 wrote:

Oh thanks. I think this might be one of the secret to a good game.
I kind of know it from Web-Developing.

The coding stable?

Slayer

It's hammering time!

19 (edited by slythfox 2008-01-19 08:36:42)

Re: Regarding the double jump

From my understanding of game design and theory, it seems that the developers are doing a good job. Teewars is very stylized, which is key. Additionally, the fact that ideas are being argued for flaws is a beneficial thing.

Do what you need to. I haven't played 0.2, but 0.3 is enjoyable (except for lag).