less damage for laser after bouncing? (Page 2 of 3)

You can code that client side, but seriously, you want me to spam mousewheels so that you stop paying attention to your sounds / light?

Then you will love how it will be!

THIS should be the ultimate solution!

I think, it's senseless to change the dmg of a laser-bounce-shot, because only a couple of players use the rifle. I just use the rifle, when i follow an enemy (for example the flagholder), because it could be very difficult to hit the enemy with the grenadelauncher. When you play instagib, i think, it's possible to aim the wallshots. In instagib it's clever to use these wallshots, because you need only one shot, and so you have many trys. In vanilla you have only one try, so nobody use the wallshots, because they're to unexactly, and most it's luck. And I had to hit the enemy a few times, so the most of gamers don't use wallshots, it's easier to aim directly a the enemy. In my mind, the rifle/laser need changes, or on change, but to set the bounce dmg down is the wrong approach.

~ der schwarze Ritter

I think the laser should be completely removed. It is only useful in instagib, where all the noobs are.

disagree about the removing part, agree about the noobs part

I see now how the laser isn't as balance, but it does have it's cons.

The laser isn't as common in most maps or just nonexistent at all; also it has such a short beam that ether you hit them or you don't (expect for instances with laser bounce).  I don't like the idea of having to manually charge them, but two ideas that I think should be brought about into the next version is, one: decreasing laser bounce damage (to 3 or 4) and two: having a slower recharge time. In real life ricochets has less force from dispersal of kinetic energy, so I see no logical reason why it wouldn't have been like that in the first place. And recharge time would be the time the gun allows you to use your next shoot. So, it wouldn't be manual, but it would be one more con making the laser a more balanced weapon.

The laser has never been my end all be all weapon. Not even close.
I've healed a great respect for the grenade launcher because, timed and predicted correctly, it can deal 2 hits at the same time giving 10 damage at once. No other weapon has a delay like that where you could reload while it's still in the air giving you time to shoot twice before they explode and has a large damage radios. But with other weapons they have they pros with cons too. Hammer, unlimited reload, but only good for very close range and little damage. Gun, auto reloads and spams up to 12 bullets without stopping, but only 1 damage per hit, and is for the most part unpredictable with it's small size. Rife, good for if you have bad luck on spot with shoots and makes a deadly pair with the hook, but bad for longer distance and typically not height damage. And laser, good for it's long one hit, high damage, and bounce, bad for unlucky aimers who get a hit with this bad boy once every 8 rounds and low in stalk in most maps.

True, more can be done to generally make each weapon perfectly balanced, but taking the laser out altogether is drastic and unnecessary in my option.

I will sum up again my position, I don't know what is so hard to understand.

I am not smart enough to think of big changes in teeworlds, I can only think of little changes in the current gameplay. I leave the big changes/decisions to Teeworlds visionnaries like chi1, Lanta or Marik. Let's suppose that chi1 is right with his load thing. It needs to be coded, tested, approved. It will need time, it is not sure that it will make it for the next version of Teeworlds.

If it makes it, awesome, we will have a better gameplay. If it doesn't make it, what do we do? Do we change nothing or do we try balance a bit (for example by giving more value for direct hits with the laser)?

I think that little balancing is still better than no balancing at all. So now I leave the big changes/decisions to the Teeworlds gurus, and if unfortunately they don't come up with the ultimate solution, I hope they will at least agree to do some little balancing like reducing the damages of the bounce.

Compared to the time it will take for a new version of Teeworlds to be release, to code and to test this is really short. In my opinion, if we have to balance the rifle, better to seriously think to it by now than to tell us "1 or damage less is already better, we'll see later on how to improve it because we need to have it done for tomorrow, who knows 0.6 may be released in the next 24 hours".

@ Ubuntu
What I want to explain is, that it doesn't matter, whether the bounce damage is less than a normal shot is, or the same.
Yeah, you can use the laser in a combo, if u are good in bounceshots, but even than, it doesn't matter.
I think, the laser need changes, but nothing like that.

Yes, it lowers the impact of luck shots, but what about the people, who really can aim the bounce shot. They're using it, to kill capers or normal deffers. I don't really can aim the bounce shot, but what about the tactical bounce users?
It becomes difficult to kill a camper, if he's camping with the grenadelauncher.
I'm not against the laser bounce dmg. change, but i'm also not for that. I weigh up the arguments of both sides.