1 (edited by b0rsuk 2008-09-12 21:51:55)

Topic: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

Hey,

I've read the sticky thread and it seems you're not too eager to add more weapons ! That would make me very sad, because 1) I like the game a lot 2) I discovered it only recently 3) I have lots of ideas. Ideas are cheap, it's the implementation that's hard. Invention is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration (Thomas Edison)

Note that some of the weapon ideas I post are not new - but I refined them and thought how to make them interesting and balanced.
------------

NEW SERVER SETTINGS:

Random weapons
Replaces all (or some) weapons on the map with Random Weapon item (see below). It would be a breath of fresh air on many maps which otherwise may become stale.

MISC ITEMS:

Random Weapon
Gives you a random weapon (except special/powerful ones like katana) when picked up. Has an appearance of a question mark.

KATANA-LIKE WEAPONS
(Have a time limit and spawn rarely)

Ball and chain
Now this is a crazy weapon ! It's not wielded. A spiked ball on a chain is attached to the tee. It doesn't hamper movement at all, but it uses whatever best physics and inertia you can come up with. It's an indirect weapon - you have to maneuver properly to pull the ball behind you and make it hit other tees. I suppose it's going to be quite tricky to use (and fun !), so perhaps allow wielding your regular weapon with it. Tees hit by the ball are knocked back quite a lot and stunned for a second or two. Maybe it should be limited somehow, for example after hitting someone with the ball the spikes retract for 1 second. For the duration it would only cause knockback, not damage. Without this limitation (1 hit per second) it may become too devastating in some cases.

Fun with Gravity
Reverses the gravity for the tee which picked it up ! You can walk on ceilings, and shots from your weapons fall... upwards.

ONE USE WEAPONS:
(These weapons have only 1 ammo in the pack, but respawn as often as normal weapons. In practice, they would be more scarce than most weapons, but more common than katana)

Shrapnel Grenade
Once fired, it flies in an arc, bouncing off obstacles, and finally explodes after 3 seconds. The explosion is not an ordinary one ! It's shrapnel, around 20 shotgun pellets flying in all directions (like a fan). Cover and timing would be very important when using it. Does not explode when it hits a tee, only once the 3 seconds run out. Can be bounced with a hammer !

Molotov Cocktail
Flies in an arc, explodes after hitting something. All surfaces in the close proximity of the explosion become covered in burning gasoline. It burns for 5 seconds. (See, it's very important that there's only 1 cocktail in the weapon pack)

Leash Trap
Can be placed like a landmine. There can be only 1 trap on the map, and if you place second the previous one disappears. It's invisible until you come quite close to it. Enough to be dangerous, but avoidable if you're careful. To make it more skill-based rather than luck based, it should make a distinct sound when placed. It's not an ordinary explosive trap - anyone caught in it is attached to a leash. The other end of the leash is remains in the ground. Leash lasts for, say, 10 seconds. So a tee caught by the trap can't move far from the trap, but can fight back !

Portable Hole
There can be only 1 hole on the map in any given moment. Any new placed hole replaces the old hole. It is fired for a short distance and attaches itself to a wall. For the duration, all tees can enter the hole to appear on the other side of the wall. You may have seen it in a cartoon :-)

Swap Teleporter
Fires in a straight line. Hitscan weapon, much like the blue laser. If you hit a tee with it, you and the other tee switch positions with each other ! It will take some creativity to use but can be lots of fun ! Jump off a cliff and hit another tee ! Use it when cornered. Confuse your enemy and kill him before he recovers. Beat someone to a weapon !

Goo grenade
Inspired by some ideas from the other thread. Covers all surfaces close to impact (even walls and ceiling !) in very slick goo. It greatly increases inertia and makes the grappling hook not work on the surface. The goo disappears after 5 seconds (needs to be playtested).

Magnet
You fire it like a grenade launcher. Once it hits any surface, it stays there for some time (10 seconds ?). While it lasts, it attracts all grappling hooks fired in its range - no matter how you aim, you always hit the magnet ! A very disruptive toy.

REGULAR WEAPONS
(Regular weapons with ordinary amount of ammo, respawn time etc.)

Handgrenades
They would work like handgrenades in various Team Fortress mods for Quake, Quake3, TFC; like handgrenades in Wolfenstein:Enemy Territory and also Quake Wars. With some limitations to prevent spam: 1) you can't throw another grenade before your last one explodes 2) they don't explode on contact.
For the uninitiated: handgrenades in Team Fortress, Wolfenstein etc are very skill-based and tactical weapon. You press the fire button to prime the grenade. You hold the fire button (grenade explodes after some time, for example 3 seconds). To throw the grenade, release the button. The grenade bounces off walls, and explodes 3 seconds after being primed.(No matter if you actually throw it or not). It's quite an unusual weapon, because it puts focus on other skills than aim. You can't just point&click with it, you have to anticipate the movement of enemies and release the grenade with the right amount of time left, to make it explode as near the enemy as possible. It would be the worst weapon to use in close combat, very vulnerable to hammer. BUt trust me, kills with grenades like that are very satisfying big_smile. I've been mastering it for years. Bonus points if you can make the grenades roll rather than just bounce. I know only 1 game which has grenades that actually roll: Sauerbraten, the free 3d FPS game.

Machinegun
Fires 5-10 rounds in a burst. There is a delay after each burst - a second or so. It would be pretty good at mid-long range, but not so good up close. You may get your ass kicked by pistol or shotgun. It would encourage the use of cover and hit&run tactics. All rounds in fired in a burst, unlike the pistol.

Plasma Gun
Direct hit weapon with slow-traveling missiles. Half the speed of pistol bullets, or slower. High damage, but somewhat easy to dodge.


PERMANENT UPGRADES
(Yes, you've read it right. To keep things sane they are quite subtle and mutually exclusive, so if you pick one up you can't have any of the other permanent powerups)

Baseball Bat
A melee weapon similar to Hammer, but You Can Bounce Grenades From Grenade Launcher With It ! The grenades you hit would flee in a reversed arc, in such way that they'd hit the spot they were fired from ! This could be a hillarious weapon to use against all those grenade launcher addicts. It would be rather hard to use effectively (basically impossible without hotkeys) but very, very rewarding. It may be necessary to add some auto-aim to it, otherwise it will be too hard to hit grenades. Currently Grenade Launcher is the most powerful weapon, owing to the fact it requires the least skill to use effectively. A weapon to specifically counter GL - in a fun way - doesn't seem a bad idea to me. Let's face it, the inconvenient truth about rocket launchers in FPS games is that they're often popular because they're the easiest to hit with.
As a bonus, to make the weapon less one-purpose, it could be used to knock the weapon off the hands of another tee. It would fly away, perhaps even disappear.

Akimbo(Dual) Pistols
You permanently get 2 pistols instead of one. Eats through ammo twice as fast, each click fires 2 bullets in rapid succession. It would require skill to use, because you'd drain your ammo much faster and you'd have to aim better.

Laser Pointer
Replaces your crosshairs with a line. The line becomes red if it crosses a tee. This makes it easier to aim, but you still have to aim.

Bomb
Instead of dying like everyone else, you explode on death.

OTHER
Spear
Flies in an arc, hits hard, passes through multiple targets and eventually hits a wall. The catch ? Only 1 ammo, only 1 on map at all times !  The catch ? If you die with the Spear in your inventory (or in hands), you drop it on the ground. If you throw it, it always eventually hits a wall because it passes through enemies. Once that happens it... remains stuck in a wall and can be picked up. So as soon as you throw it, you make it available for enemies to pick up. Make sure you don't miss ! Players are going to fight over it, but as soon as one of them gets it, he loses it. I'd call that quite revolutionary. It can have its own game type. If the spear is not picked up for, say, 60 seconds, it respawns at its original position. ANd only then.
It would be a bit like playing Tag.

2

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

Now write a detailed description for every one of these weapons where you explain why the weapons are totally unique and fills an aspect that isn't already filled by another weapon.

Simply: No. Teeworlds is and should be as simple as possible, 5 weapons is more than enough, imo we would prolly have been fine with only the original four(hammer,pistol,rocket,shotgun), as they fill the needs in every aspect.

Official Teeworlds map developer and community moderator
Administrator for the Teeworlds community Teesites

3

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

i think that more one FISICAL (like hammer) gun is needed
diferent of hammer but fisical

i dont have an sure idea but....


thx

I am <x|HT|x> oio BR leader of <x|HT|x>smile
Heaven Tees the best BR clan big_smile. Ally of cKz`
                            GG for all

4

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

@Chi11y

but with only those four you wouldn't have laser instagib, a very popular mod in teeworlds. Almost every crowded server is instagib laser.

Left [WTF] so I had to make an other account here. The new account is named: "pepperoni" with a big golden P as avatar.

5

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

Chi11y wrote:

Now write a detailed description for every one of these weapons where you explain why the weapons are totally unique and fills an aspect that isn't already filled by another weapon.

Simply: No. Teeworlds is and should be as simple as possible, 5 weapons is more than enough, imo we would prolly have been fine with only the original four(hammer,pistol,rocket,shotgun), as they fill the needs in every aspect.

I'm not going to write a detailed description if your repply is going to be as unimaginative as this one. Besides, you should never balance stuff on paper. Without actual playtesting, numbers are meaningless. I don't know C well enough to write it on my own (nevermind c++).\
Fills every role ? Join an instagib server. Every weapon there fills every imaginable role. You have close quarters laser, middle range laser, long range laser. Who needs more ? The mod even simplifies the game so that tactics are not needed. Just stay on the edge of the battlefield, it's safer than in the middle. No items to pick up and resources to manage.

If simplicity was all that mattered we'd be still playing Quake1 and worshiping rocket launcher, rocket launcher, rocket launcher, lightning gun and grenade launcher. Once in a while someone tries something new despite the "I can't see the point of it" people and the world becomes a better place.

6

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

Veeeery nice ideas!! if the community doesnt want any changes in core versions of TW some of these weapons can be modded.

on the other hand, i think 5 weapons are enough, but tees should choose which weapons they wield. maybe something like buying arms would work. tees choosing weapons after they joined server seems nice for me too.. i know it wont be implemented in  0.5..but maybe later? ;>

7

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

Some good stuff in there.

We've been tossing around some of these ideas in earlier discussions, and while there are a few weapon types that aren't really compatible with our design vision, it's always nice to have ideas.

The Katana is actually bit of a placeholder for a wider range of powerup weapons, mostly usable in DM and TDM-like modes. Some of your ideas will definitely be of use when we go back and revisit those.

8

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

besides: I would hardly recommend to remove the laser bounce and therefore slightly increase the dmg. I think laser is one of the most effective weapons at present. Brilliant distance weapon, but it can also do 5 damage when fighting in close combat. --> it's in all points superior to the shotgun.

Antoine de Saint Exupéry: It seems that perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
Besides -  I am the gfx guy!

9

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

but i think that aprozimideatly 40% of the shots of the laser only hit when it bounces on a wall

(my opinion)

I am <x|HT|x> oio BR leader of <x|HT|x>smile
Heaven Tees the best BR clan big_smile. Ally of cKz`
                            GG for all

10

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

About buying weapons and so on:

How about an idea borrowed from Worms ? You can choose to start with any of the 1-shot weapons ? The limitation would be only 1 ammo, and you can't use the weapon until you survive 30 seconds (to prevent spam, otherwise everyone would throw their grenade or something else right after spawn). 30 seconds is a lot of time in Teeworlds, it's faster-paced than Quake.

I oppose removal of laser bounce. It's what makes the weapon unusual and not just another sniper rifle/railgun clone. I'd even go as far as to suggest a weapon that ONLY deals damage with the secondary bounce.

A note about Flamethrower - if added, it's going to be hard to balance. If it deals damage over time it will have the same weakness as the one in RTCW and Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory. This means that you may ignite people, but they WILL rush in and kill you. In those games it was helped by the fact that flamethrower slowed your movement speed. Short-ranged damage over time weapon is just weak in most cases. Think about shotgun: it's hard to rush people with it if they expect it. There are many ways in which they can run from you and shoot back. With shorter(presumably) range it's going to be even worse.
"Easy to aim/Big missiles" makes sense for a weapon like this, but it will reduce the skill needed to use the weapon.

Shotgun is a pretty bad weapon overall, let's face it. It's nowhere as useful as grenade launcher - shorter range, less damage, harder to hit, and - not sure - slower rate of fire ? Shotgun just sucks as a primary weapon, but it starts to shine when you learn weapon hotkeys. I often lure my enemies with pistol (which is quite effective at long range) and fire shotgun in their face as they approach. Psychological warfare is very interesting part of Teeworlds, much more than it could be in 3D FPS games, because in Teeworlds you can see behind walls. You can even bluff by wielding a weapon without ammo and scare enemies away so they allow you to pick up a replacement weapon.

11

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

Wow boy, u have some very cool ideas wink my personal fav. is the swapper. Incredible.

We will meet again when the flowers spread their glorious scent of victory and the birds sing us the melody of justice...

12

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

I love the idea of handgrenades because it could give a new dimension to the game and it is very different from the other weapons. It could be very useful to make move the target when he camp on his position.

13

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

Ok best ideas are:

- Handgrenades... 3x throwable and a timer of 3sec would be nice... they could be tactical really useful...

i would LOVE them really! but they should do nice damage because enemys CAN avoid them.... but if they are stupid or if they CAN'T avoid them they get a nice damage...

OMFG i want those grenades!

- Swapper... nice idea... it would be great if you swapp the positions AND the weapons... if the enemy got a shotgun and you got a swapper YOU CHANGE THE WEAPONS...

ima charhgin ma lazerz!!1
SHOOP DA WHOOOOP!!!!!!11

14 (edited by b0rsuk 2008-09-13 12:22:21)

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

From personal experience, handgrenades are tricky to avoid. If someone has a good sense of rhytm (timing), he can make one explode in your face in the air, no matter if it hits you or not. You avoid it in different ways - you should either move behind something, or suddenly reduce/increase distance. Aiming is easy, timing is tricky. You're aiming for certain distance. There are workarounds, of course. If the fuse is too long, you bounce it against a wall etc.
A desperate tactic with grenades is 'grenade hug'. You prime the grenade and don't release it at all. And run into the enemy !

Swapper could be very interesting in some CTF maps, and would encourage teamplay.

Magnum
A powerup limited by time, like katana. Basically instagib. Deals 666 damage per hit, 1 shot per second, instant hit. Reduces your health to 1 and destroys armour. While it lasts, you can't gain health or armour (but you can still pick it up to deny it to others). A great way to show off your marksmanship.
By the way, I think all major powerups like katana or magnum should print the number of kills once the user dies or the effect wears off. It would be very satisfying if you managed to hammer a katana wielder with 5 kills.

15 (edited by torch 2008-09-13 12:31:49)

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

I also have some ideas, ( not all weapons ) for example:
1. I know the damage and unhookable tiles are going to be added. I though about another type of such a tile: slippery tile. ( its easiest to imagine ice and/or oil ). And what does the tile do ? u keep ur speed without pressing any key, and can even gain some if moving forward. De/Acceleration is slower like on normal ground, so braking when going very fast is _almost_ unpossible ( i know its im ). Would be cool especially for races and ctf too.

2. There should be and easy and elegant way of exchanging the flag within a team. The only possible solution so far is killing urself either with nades or "kill" with a teammember standing nearby waiting to pick the flag up. Thats not very nice, some even call it cheating wink. Im not sure about the solution to this, but maybe something like: if 2 tees hook _eachother_ and hold it for 1 sec then they exchange the flag ( given one of them had it ). Im awaiting ur ideas regarding this since this is not a perfect solution.

3. the swapper suggested by borsuk ( thats how i _imagine_ it ):
behaves like laser ( can bounce ). when it hits it exchanges ur position with the hitted one. It exchanges armor and health and ammo ( not weapons just ammo ) to ur good. For example if u have more health that the victim, it wont exchange it, but if u have less it will. I think this is necessary since the weapon itself does not do any damage, and while ur using it ur risking to be hit by some nades and stuff.

4. We already have lots of suggestion regarding weapons/powerups but all of them are for invidual use only. It would be nice to come up with something which could make the teamplay more ... fun. I have no idea what it could be wink but i know we need it ( only thing getting in my mind from other games is the link gun from the UT series )

We will meet again when the flowers spread their glorious scent of victory and the birds sing us the melody of justice...

16 (edited by G1nick 2008-09-13 14:47:49)

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

I think that there are just a right number of weapons

???????????????????????????????????
?¹ G???c? ¹..?.. ||                       QuiD| °RsT°Clan-Leader  [ITA]

17

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

G1nick wrote:

I think that there are just a right number of weapons

Yeah... but i want grenades... more i don't want ^^

ima charhgin ma lazerz!!1
SHOOP DA WHOOOOP!!!!!!11

18 (edited by Chrono Syndrome 2008-09-13 16:27:29)

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

>Ball and chain
Congrats: you re-invented flail. Well, talking seriously, it's will be more dangerous to wielder than to others, IMHO.

>Simply: No. Teeworlds is and should be as simple as possible, 5 weapons is more than enough, imo we would prolly have been fine with only the original four(hammer,pistol,rocket,shotgun), as they fill the needs in every aspect.
1) TeeWorlds has 6 weapons.
2) As simple is possible ? Basically, it's already more complex then Pong.
3) My needs of flamethrower and slug gun (well, let's forget 'bout guiding missiles) aren't filled at all). And I'm already stated why 'em should be implemented.

Don't try to catch the Night !
Useless simplifications is worst enemy of simplicity. (C)

19

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

Chrono Syndrome wrote:

>Ball and chain
Congrats: you re-invented flail. Well, talking seriously, it's will be more dangerous to wielder than to others, IMHO.

>Simply: No. Teeworlds is and should be as simple as possible, 5 weapons is more than enough, imo we would prolly have been fine with only the original four(hammer,pistol,rocket,shotgun), as they fill the needs in every aspect.
1) TeeWorlds has 6 weapons.
2) As simple is possible ? Basically, it's already more complex then Pong.
3) My needs of flamethrower and slug gun (well, let's forget 'bout guiding missiles) aren't filled at all). And I'm already stated why 'em should be implemented.

2) We aim and have always aimed to make a simple game that is easy to learn and hard to master. Too many weapons would make it hard to learn (also harder to master probably).

3) Each weapon fills a need:
* Hammer is close-combat, fast and does big damage
* Gun is long ranged, fast, auto-regen and little damage
* Shotgun is fast and shoots 5 bullets for close-combat
* Grenade does huge damage on multiple targets and can be used to boost
* Rifle is long-ranged, no curvature, much damage and quick as hell
* Katana does really huge damage and is the ultimate in close combat.

I can't see what needs there are left and what those would fill. Please tell me/us.

20

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

e.g. when would the guiding missile do something you really need to do, but can't do with the current weapon lineup?

Also, katana is a powerup, not a weapon wink

EDIT: I would also like to quote matricks.

matricks wrote:

The Teeworlds Design Plan
The design for Teeworlds and it's code follows a very very strict code. It's best summed up as KISS or Occam's Razor.
1. Teeworlds should be fun!
2. Teeworlds should contain no excess and be kept to the bare minimum, only exception is rule 1.
3. Teeworlds should be deterministic and predictable. No random variables, no exceptions.
4. Teeworlds should be about order, not chaos.
5. Teeworlds should be very informative on what's happening.
Following these rules we believe that you can create a very fun and skill-based game.

Have these things in mind, they pretty well sum up why teeworlds is great! smile

Official Teeworlds map developer and community moderator
Administrator for the Teeworlds community Teesites

21 (edited by Chrono Syndrome 2008-09-13 17:15:06)

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

"It's feature, not a bug !", huh) ?

I can't see what needs there are left and what those would fill. Please tell me/us.

Again ? OK, let's repeat:
*Slug gun: low-damaging and relatively slow weapon, developed for controlling groups of enemies, gathered on straight line. Addition usefullnes against high-armored tees. Good for DM.
*Flamethrower: very high rate of fire, ver low radius. Developed for fighting with hammerfags and flaming party in narrow places. Usefull for fast killing dangerous enemies... If you can come close enough. Good for ambushes.
*Guided Missile: very low ammo (4), high range and damage. Deveoloped for attacking opponents, which trying to hide from your attacks using landscape's obsatacles. Also useful to attack enemies from shelter (with hearts f.e.). Camper and anti-camper weapon at same time).
----------------
Well, just read my posts sometimes... It's useful wink.

Don't try to catch the Night !
Useless simplifications is worst enemy of simplicity. (C)

22

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

Slug gun: The grenadelauncher is slow and can take out a large number of tee's that are close to eachother, also, it has high damage, making it even better than the slug gun mentioned.
Flamethrower: Even if I agree that it would feel pwn to run around with a flamer I can use laser in narrow places, and hammer in close combat.
Guided missile:: A clear no-skill weapon, a weapon that doesn't require me to aim myself is clearly something that I don't want in Teeworlds, it takes away too much of what makes Teeworlds so competitive.

Really, if a new weapon is needed id should fill a very clear spot which isn't already filled. I'm kinda against the way laser turned out in the end, since it has a much wider area of use than the other two primary weapons, making it overpowered, this will prolly be fixed with balancing in later versions, but I think it shows that new weapons shouldn't be rushed without serious playtesting and a very specific area of use.

EDIT: To make it clear; I'm not really straight-down against a new weapon, but it should fill a specific area of use, according to rule 2. wink

Official Teeworlds map developer and community moderator
Administrator for the Teeworlds community Teesites

23 (edited by Daniel 2008-09-13 17:20:21)

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

b0rsuk wrote:
Chi11y wrote:

Now write a detailed description for every one of these weapons where you explain why the weapons are totally unique and fills an aspect that isn't already filled by another weapon.

Simply: No. Teeworlds is and should be as simple as possible, 5 weapons is more than enough, imo we would prolly have been fine with only the original four(hammer,pistol,rocket,shotgun), as they fill the needs in every aspect.

I'm not going to write a detailed description if your repply is going to be as unimaginative as this one. Besides, you should never balance stuff on paper. Without actual playtesting, numbers are meaningless. I don't know C well enough to write it on my own (nevermind c++).\
Fills every role ? Join an instagib server. Every weapon there fills every imaginable role. You have close quarters laser, middle range laser, long range laser. Who needs more ? The mod even simplifies the game so that tactics are not needed. Just stay on the edge of the battlefield, it's safer than in the middle. No items to pick up and resources to manage.

If simplicity was all that mattered we'd be still playing Quake1 and worshiping rocket launcher, rocket launcher, rocket launcher, lightning gun and grenade launcher. Once in a while someone tries something new despite the "I can't see the point of it" people and the world becomes a better place.

...while regular teeworlds has 5 weapons and a hook (+ katana) that you can make several tactics with, and need alot of skill to use properly. The pistol reloads itself when having it active, its a really good gun in 1on1 if you use it properly since you mostly damage 2+ damage every clip you spend, which is quite alot if you use it every 20 seconds. The hammer can also be good sometimes, but its quite rare for it to be usefull. All other weapons is needed to pick up and resource manage, you can pick up all weapons as a tactic in smaller games.

What chi11y stated was that 5 weapons is simple and enough. You talk about instagib in your post, instagib has 1 weapon, instagib dont have any items to pick up and resources to manage, instagib (almost) have no tactics while regular teeworlds have all of that.

24 (edited by Chrono Syndrome 2008-09-13 17:35:22)

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

The grenadelauncher is slow and can take out a large number of tee's that are close to eachother, also, it has high damage, making it even better than the slug gun mentioned.

Useless against spreaded enemies + arc-based trajectory instead of line, so shoots can't parallel to earth.

Even if I agree that it would feel pwn to run around with a flamer I can use laser in narrow places, and hammer in close combat.

Hammer has lesser range, laser are slower.

A clear no-skill weapon, a weapon that doesn't require me to aim myself is clearly something that I don't want in Teeworlds, it takes away too much of what makes Teeworlds so competitive.

Well, it's make some things (shooting through obstacles) simpler, but missiles are not so hard to dodge, so, paired with low-ammo, chances are even. Remember: it's only protecting user's shots from landscape's blocking, not from missing, so hands.dll is still required to use it.

Don't try to catch the Night !
Useless simplifications is worst enemy of simplicity. (C)

25 (edited by b0rsuk 2008-09-13 19:41:05)

Re: No more weapons :-( ? (lots of ideas)

Ball and chain
Congrats: you re-invented flail. Well, talking seriously, it's will be more dangerous to wielder than to others, IMHO.

Because it's impossible to make it hit only enemies, right ? It sounds like a very fun and unconventional weapon to me.

I can't see what needs there are left and what those would fill. Please tell me/us.

Handgrenades would be somewhat indirect weapon which rewards primarily timing and planning rather than aim. You could bounce them against walls (like in the games I mentioned, or Worms) to hit targets behind cover. At the same time it would be a very poor close combat weapon. A thinking man's "sniper rifle". Very dependant on circumstances. It wouldn't make a good camping weapon because you could be easily rushed with any other weapon. It would also be a weapon which requires skill to use (unlike grenade launcher). Grenade launcher in quake is tricky to use, but can also be used to just spam because it explodes on contact and fires quickly. Handgrenades in Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory can be awesome, but also spammy. With the limitations I described you could have the best of both.

Plasma Gun/Machinegun would be a weapon capable of supressive fire. Grenade launcher can do that to a certain extent, but not that much. There's a tradeoff - a bit harder to hit due to slower missile speed (plasma gun), but higher damage. Good if you can anticipate the movement of your enemy or in narrow areas. I think plasma gun could work more less like in Quake3. In gameplay terms it would fill the spot between pistol and flamethrower. Missiles could be not too fast, but not affected by gravity.

Swap Teleporter
Rewards creative players. If you don't like it, you're not one of them.

Portable Hole
Make mess in CTF maps. Force people to change their tactics.

Spear
A powerful weapon with basically unlimited ammo, but you have to recover it after each hit. And your enemies can pick it up. You should use it at the right moment, and make each shot count. Or you'll run into trouble. Players will fight over this.