101 (edited by DEXi 2015-12-21 16:00:24)

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

lighting system :\
lighting with transparent black tile is very unseemly sad ( and not dynamic sad )

~~~~Simple

102

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

DrLaxer wrote:

lighting system :\
lighting with transparent black tile is very unseemly sad ( and not dynamic sad )

like this? it would be cool if you could change the color of the light and decide how dark the shadows are.

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103

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

android272 wrote:

-snip-it would be cool if you could change the color of the light and decide how dark the shadows are.

I think a section-of-map based "Ambient light" should be used to determine the darkness of shadows. Also that video you linked has incorrect name tag lighting, in the darkness it's brightest, take it out of the water and it's nearly sky colored and hard to read. Prolly just a bug, but otherwise that dynamic lighting seems good

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104 (edited by android272 2015-12-22 06:29:28)

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

pielover88888 wrote:
android272 wrote:

-snip-it would be cool if you could change the color of the light and decide how dark the shadows are.

I think a section-of-map based "Ambient light" should be used to determine the darkness of shadows. Also that video you linked has incorrect name tag lighting, in the darkness it's brightest, take it out of the water and it's nearly sky colored and hard to read. Prolly just a bug, but otherwise that dynamic lighting seems good

Yah the name tag thing is probably a bug. It would be neat if the map maker could place many different light sources around the map and edit their attributes.

Brightness/transparency

Color - light and shodow should be the same hue.  Eg Light is red, shadow is dark red.

Distance - how far does the light from the source before it starts fading to shadow.

Direction - control where the light is shining.  full light like in the video, half light, Siren

http://s10.postimg.org/w2m3wbhc8/drawing.jpg

Animation - I imagine fire flicker, Siren spinning, flashing or fading in and out, swinging lights etc.

Size - how big is the light source. Eg, lamp's and clanles.

visibility - can you see the light source or not?  You might not want to show the light source of the sun but you want there to be a source to draw the shadows from. On the other hand lights, lamps, candle's could be visible little balls of light.

Jesus is my Lord and Savior. Praise be unto God for giving us a way to live with him.

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105

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

1. Don't delete broadcast
2. Don't delete broadcast
3. Don't delete broadcast

106

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

Broadcast are deleted because it must be client-side to be translated in the player language. The only possibility for that is to send an text ID instead of the true text and let the client choose the appropriate text corresponding to this id. In addition, the number of data to send decrease with this approach. So removing broadcast is a good idea for TeeWorlds. And keep this functionality without use it means that you support mod community, which is not what devs want.

So ask instead for a descent API for mod development in 0.7 ( good luck :-p )

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Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

necropotame wrote:

Broadcast are deleted because it must be client-side to be translated in the player language. The only possibility for that is to send an text ID instead of the true text and let the client choose the appropriate text corresponding to this id. In addition, the number of data to send decrease with this approach. So removing broadcast is a good idea for TeeWorlds. And keep this functionality without use it means that you support mod community, which is not what devs want.

So ask instead for a descent API for mod development in 0.7 ( good luck :-p )

I know that this will never happen because the devs hate mods, which makes no since because mods are what brings life to this dieing game. But you could send braudcast messages to a service like Google translate have it translate the braudcast and present that to the user. I know these services can be inaccurate and again the devs hate mods but it is a solution.

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108

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

Using external service is not really a solution.
The main issue about broadcast is not translation. It's only about make thing smarter.
Think Broadcast as a temporary solution.

By the way, replacing broadcast by message ID is 3 years old. Modder had plenty of time to rethink how to make message.

Mod API is not a bad idea to make consistent choices for mods. smile

109

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

rand() wrote:

Using external service is not really a solution.
The main issue about broadcast is not translation. It's only about make thing smarter.
Think Broadcast as a temporary solution.

By the way, replacing broadcast by message ID is 3 years old. Modder had plenty of time to rethink how to make message.

Mod API is not a bad idea to make consistent choices for mods. smile


I don't understand? How is translation not an issue? How is getting rid of the broadcast system making something smarter? The broadcast system is a temporary solution for what? There is something better coming?

Jesus is my Lord and Savior. Praise be unto God for giving us a way to live with him.

Check out my DeviantArt for all my TeeWorlds art and ideas for Teeoworlds

110

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

android272 wrote:

Color - light and shodow should be the same hue.  Eg Light is red, shadow is dark red.

I think the shadow should be a mix of the other ambient light sources' (that are near by) colors , if there are any other sources. if there aren't, then dark red would be more sensical. think of it this way in real life, the sun is yellow but shadows are kinda blueish or grey (so many clouds right now), not yellowish ^-^

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111 (edited by android272 2015-12-23 10:03:44)

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

pielover88888 wrote:

I think the shadow should be a mix of the other ambient light sources' (that are near by) colors , if there are any other sources. if there aren't, then dark red would be more sensical. think of it this way in real life, the sun is yellow but shadows are kinda blueish or grey (so many clouds right now), not yellowish ^-^

Oops I thought I mentioned that colors should blend... Your right I think yellow shadows would be strange. All though if there is a bright yellow light wouldn't it make more yellow shadows? 

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/coconut-shadows-tropics-big-green-husk-stem-next-to-yellow-exterior-wall-tropical-palm-fronds-copy-space-58147113.jpg

This is more yellow but it is because the wall is yellow... Maybe the shadow color should be black by default and the user could choose a different color if they wish. I don't know.

Jesus is my Lord and Savior. Praise be unto God for giving us a way to live with him.

Check out my DeviantArt for all my TeeWorlds art and ideas for Teeoworlds

112

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

android272 wrote:

I know that this will never happen because the devs hate mods, which makes no since because mods are what brings life to this dieing game

I don't even know who spreads those lies, obviously devs DON'T hate mods, they are just not a priority over vanilla. *snip*

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android272 wrote:

But you could send braudcast messages to a service like Google translate have it translate the braudcast and present that to the user.

Not sure whether you are trolling right now or what, but as you mentioned it is inaccurate, you need to provide an api key (everyone their own or all the same?) and it is strictly limited to a small amount of characters if you don't want to pay an unrealistic amount of money.

Real programmers don't comment their code - it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand.
Proudly verkeckt since 2010.

113

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

@android272 : If you think that something interesting is missing in the map system, and if this has nothing to do with gameplay (I mean, just graphics), don't hesitate to add this as proposition for ModAPI. I think that we can add new MapItem without breaking the compatibility with vanilla. We can even think about two versions of each map, one for 0.7 and one for 0.7 ModAPI. Like, if a player use ModAPI, a different map will be share with him. The editor could be able to save both versions in same time.

114 (edited by android272 2015-12-23 15:00:28)

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

xush wrote:

I don't even know who spreads those lies, obviously devs DON'T hate mods, they are just not a priority over vanilla. *snip*

Please be friendly to other forum members // heinrich5991

I have read OY state that he does not care for mods and reject things that would make help modes. I completely understand that vanilla is their priority. But I do not understand why the devs will completely shoot down things that would make modding easier.  Why are the devs so hostile to the community that keeps their game afloat?

xush wrote:

Not sure whether you are trolling right now or what, but as you mentioned it is inaccurate, you need to provide an api key (everyone their own or all the same?) and it is strictly limited to a small amount of characters if you don't want to pay an unrealistic amount of money.

I don't understand how this could be considered tolling? If the problem with the broadcasting system is that people of different languages would not have the braudcast translated in their language. wouldn't the obvious thing to do be send the message to the player, detect the language of the player and have that message translated to that language.   This was the argument given against the broadcast system at the time, so I gave a legitimate solution to the preserved problem.  I don't know how language translation APIs work all I know is that Google translate is freaking awesome. I personally do not care one way or the other whether the devs keep or discard the broadcast system. I just see a lot of modders in an uproar over the whole thing, I thought of a solution to the preserved problem and then suggested the solution.  I don't care what happenes to the system, I care that the devs are actively striping out features that modders want for one reason or another, because OY says and I quote "Won't fix, the messages are integrated into the client now - don't care about mods." Fantastic explanation for why a feature won't be added to the game.

necropotame wrote:

@android272 : If you think that something interesting is missing in the map system, and if this has nothing to do with gameplay (I mean, just graphics), don't hesitate to add this as proposition for ModAPI. I think that we can add new MapItem without breaking the compatibility with vanilla. We can even think about two versions of each map, one for 0.7 and one for 0.7 ModAPI. Like, if a player use ModAPI, a different map will be share with him. The editosystemd be able to save both versions in same time.

Dude there are so many thing missing from the cartographer.

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115

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

I don't understand how this could be considered tolling? If the problem with the broadcasting system is that people of different languages would not have the braudcast translated in their language. wouldn't the obvious thing to do be send the message to the player, detect the language of the player and have that message translated to that language.   This was the argument given against the broadcast system at the time, so I gave a legitimate solution to the preserved problem.  I don't know how language translation APIs work all I know is that Google translate is freaking awesome. I personally do not care one way or the other whether the devs keep or discard the broadcast system. I just see a lot of modders in an uproar over the whole thing, I thought of a solution to the preserved problem and then suggested the solution.  I don't care what happenes to the system, I care that the devs are actively striping out features that modders want for one reason or another, because OY says and I quote "Won't fix, the messages are integrated into the client now - don't care about mods." Fantastic explanation for why a feature won't be added to the game.

Use google translation is not at all a solution at all. Translation must be done by human. What id did for InfectionClass is detecting the language based on the flag and then send the broadcast in the appropriate language. It works, but it's better to do this client side (sending id instead of text is faster).

Dude there are so many thing missing from the cartographer.

Post a wishlist with priorities in the ModAPI thread and lets talk about it.

116

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

android272 wrote:
rand() wrote:

Using external service is not really a solution.
The main issue about broadcast is not translation. It's only about make thing smarter.
Think Broadcast as a temporary solution.

By the way, replacing broadcast by message ID is 3 years old. Modder had plenty of time to rethink how to make message.

Mod API is not a bad idea to make consistent choices for mods. smile


I don't understand? How is translation not an issue? How is getting rid of the broadcast system making something smarter? The broadcast system is a temporary solution for what? There is something better coming?

Smarter = simpler implementation, simpler code maintenance, few network usage, easier for localization.
It's totally logical to do that since teeworlds dev work on teeworlds.
I meant the old broadcast system, with plain text message from the server.

117

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

necropotame wrote:

Use google translation is not at all a solution at all. Translation must be done by human. What id did for InfectionClass is detecting the language based on the flag and then send the broadcast in the appropriate language. It works, but it's better to do this client side (sending id instead of text is faster).

No its not necessarily a good solution, but it is still a solution.  You can not human translate user submitted text very easily or fast.  So computer translation is the next best thing.  I have communicated with people who do not speak English though Google translate.  There are some errors but I could still understand them.

necropotame wrote:

Dude there are so many thing missing from the cartographer.

Post a wishlist with priorities in the ModAPI thread and lets talk about it.

Im not sure I will think about it...

rand() wrote:

Smarter = simpler implementation, simpler code maintenance, few network usage, easier for localization.
It's totally logical to do that since teeworlds dev work on teeworlds.
I meant the old broadcast system, with plain text message from the server.

Smarter != simpler.... Simple is nice but it is not always smart. Just because something is simple does not mean it is good or the best thing to do.  Keep It Simple Stupid or KISS is just plain stupid.  Sure if you can make something simple do it.  But honestly things should be As Complicated As Need Be or ACANB XD

Jesus is my Lord and Savior. Praise be unto God for giving us a way to live with him.

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118

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

android272 wrote:

No its not necessarily a good solution, but it is still a solution.  You can not human translate user submitted text very easily or fast.  So computer translation is the next best thing.  I have communicated with people who do not speak English though Google translate.  There are some errors but I could still understand them.

It's not about the reliability of Google Translate. It is about using it. It's neither a bad nor a good solution. It's not a solution.
Again, translation is not a real issue. In vanilla, server messages are limited. You can easily lookup plaintext server message in a table and use its translation on client side (leaving the other messages non-translated )

Personally, I would react as xush. It's like asking a minesweeper to use google translate to translate score message. (ok, it's really different. but, i think that using a third party in teeworlds run time is irrelevant.)

android272 wrote:

Smarter != simpler.... Simple is nice but it is not always smart. Just because something is simple does not mean it is good or the best thing to do.  Keep It Simple Stupid or KISS is just plain stupid.  Sure if you can make something simple do it.  But honestly things should be As Complicated As Need Be or ACANB XD

Google Translate is a good example for simple != smarter.
I used '=' to translate my smarter in simpler blablabla… in this case. I never said that simpler = smarter. Don't misinterpret me.

Teeworlds shouldn't be compared to minecraft… teeworlds is open source after all. Modding is and will stay easy.

119

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

rand() wrote:

It's not about the reliability of Google Translate. It is about using it. It's neither a bad nor a good solution. It's not a solution.
Again, translation is not a real issue. In vanilla, server messages are limited. You can easily lookup plaintext server message in a table and use its translation on client side (leaving the other messages non-translated )

Personally, I would react as xush. It's like asking a minesweeper to use google translate to translate score message. (ok, it's really different. but, i think that using a third party in teeworlds run time is irrelevant.)

Dude it was a suggestion for a possible solution to what someone said was the problem.  It is in fact a possible solution. Besides I said a google translate like service.  Again I don't care about the broadcasting system I was just saying here is a possible solution to what what given as the problem with the system.

rand() wrote:

Teeworlds shouldn't be compared to minecraft… teeworlds is open source after all. Modding is and will stay easy.

Why?

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120

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

Because minecraft is not open source. Modding highly depends on a unknown black box that can change on each release.

On teeworlds, the source are free to use, modifiable. The dev version is also available and part of the source is self documenting.

However, i m not sure atm if you or another tee did compare minecraft and teeworlds so nvm.

About, broadcast, we might find armuments to restore part of its functions. For admin or improving user experience in vanilla.

121

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

rand() wrote:

Because minecraft is not open source. Modding highly depends on a unknown black box that can change on each release.

On teeworlds, the source are free to use, modifiable. The dev version is also available and part of the source is self documenting.

However, i m not sure atm if you or another tee did compare minecraft and teeworlds so nvm.

About, broadcast, we might find armuments to restore part of its functions. For admin or improving user experience in vanilla.

I was the one who mentioned Minecraft on github.  And I was not comparing Teeworlds to Minecraft I was pointing out how little fan base it would probably have if they were to close the game off completely and not allow mods. Minecraft not really all that fun a game without mods, its OK but mods are what make the game. And telling from some stats on the Teeworlds servers were on NDA in the same situation. More people play mods than vanilla.

I do however thing there are many lessons you can take from Minecraft since the development was sorta like Teeworlds. Not open source or developed in the open but gradually getting better over time.  The biggest example I can think of is how they manage assets. They used to have one big sprite sheet for every block in the game. But as they added more more and more blocks, not only would mods brake when they release a new version but so would peoples custom resources.  To fix this they sepperated every block into its own file. This way when you make your own assets when they add new blocks for the next version the missing textures out revert to vanilla textures but the rest remained the same, and all you need to do is make a few textures and add them to your resources.

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122

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

Mark the "deleted" features as ''deprecated' instead remove them in this version... The game have "modifications"... be good with the devs and eh... give time to adapt all to the new guideline...

sry for bad english

123

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

Graphic should ( most) be upgrade ..... ( maybe with lighting)
0.4 = 0.5 = 0.6 = 0.7 ( constant graphic)

little idea:

- use "color picker" for tile coloring in map editor ( like skin system)
- emote sound ...

~~~~Simple

124

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

DEXi wrote:

- use "color picker" for tile coloring in map editor ( like skin system)

I personally think the map editor's color picker is more understandable than the one for skins, as each click will get you closer to the desired color and show that, even if the selected color isn't near it..idk, always thought the tee color picker was a tad clunky

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125

Re: [Discussion thread] Name 3 things you want to see in 0.7

pielover88888 wrote:
DEXi wrote:

- use "color picker" for tile coloring in map editor ( like skin system)

I personally think the map editor's color picker is more understandable than the one for skins, as each click will get you closer to the desired color and show that, even if the selected color isn't near it..idk, always thought the tee color picker was a tad clunky

color picking with (mouse) slider isn't user(n0ob or pro) friendly...

mixing color picker and slider ... good idea


new idea:

f3-> "editor" console
commands: load_map , new_map and ...

~~~~Simple